The late Skip Alexander, who used to head the Psychology Dept at MUM, co-edited a book that examined post-maslow development.
He wrote the chapter on Vedic Psychology, and prominent mainstream-psychologists wrote chapters on post-Maslow, -post-Piagetian, etc., psychology. _Higher Stages of Human Development_ -Alexander and Langer, ed. May still be in print. [You can't have my autographed copy, sorry] L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : When thinking about why people value certain experiences and do certain activities, I like Maslow's hierarchy of needs as a guideline. IOW, once certain basic needs are met, then a person seeks to satisfy additional needs. Which might not be higher but which might simply involve activating more of the brain. Could it be that we're simply compelled by neural pathways in our brain that want to be activated? Or are we simply physical organisms seeking homeostatis all the time? Today is Mahalakshmi day. There's a big celebration in the Dome. I haven't decided whether I will go or not. Autumn has been so beautiful here. I feel happy enough just glancing up from the computer once and a while, out the window to the trees and the sky, walking to the post office, doing my everyday tasks. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't need to go to the Dome and hopefully get blessings from Mahalakshmi in the form of more money and then feel happier. I am already feeling happy enough. Much much gratitude... On Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:00 AM, "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness Well said Barry - and I agree with every word It's NOT that I'm saying that seeking spiritual experiences ISN'T valuable. I'm just pointing out that almost no one in history has ever stepped up to the plate and made an objective, scientific case for what that value might be. Most teachers or seekers just *assume* that these experiences they have or claim to have had are valuable, but when called upon to do so, they can't really produce any strong arguments for WHY they are valuable, or WHAT that supposed value is. I'm suggesting that this oversight is epidemic in the world of "spiritual practices," the elephant in the room that no one ever talks about. The people promoting these practices just *assume* that these experiences they're having or seeking are *worth* having or seeking, and debate the supposedly best ways of achieving them. But I don't know of very many who have taken that "step back," beyond the assumption, and have tried to make a case for WHY they're so intent on achieving these things. What is it that they hope to "achieve," and WHY would others want to do so? Answers such as, "Well, I want to have these experiences because Jim Flanegin said that I would be a low-vibe slime until I had them the way he has" do not count. :-) :-) :-) It's the same problem I see with religion in general. The people urging others to join their religions don't seem to ever offer any real-world, payoff-in-this-lifetime reasons for doing so. They just *assume* that there is a payoff, and try to bluff their way through without ever specifying what it is. Millions and millions of seekers over the ages, and almost none of them have ever come up with a real *value* for all this seeking they're devoting their lives to. I'm NOT suggesting that there isn't one, just pointing out that no one ever seems to talk about it if there is. From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous system. But that would presuppose that there is an actual VALUE to these "experiences of unboundedness." That has not been established, merely assumed by centuries of religious fanatics trying to convince others that its value trumps everything else. I would suggest going back to the starting point and, if you want to invent a better system, make a case for these types of experience having a value in the first place. Most religions have never tried to do this. They just make declarations like Maharishi did, along the lines of "The purpose of life is to achieve these experiences of unboundedness," which then become dogma and are repeated and believed by successive generations of believers. But he never said WHY these experiences were supposedly worth achieving. Start now...what do YOU see as the VALUE of these "experiences of unboundedness" you speak of? If you can't establish that they *have* a value, then why do we need a system of *any* kind to achieve them? Systems already exist, but they are inefficient and quirky, and at best we just stumble into them. If the value to the individual is great enough, they will find a way. What was of value to me though, might not be of value to another. I have found these experiences valuable... HOW? I cannot help but notice that you have avoided my question. DEFINE this "value" that you have "found" in these "experiences of unboundedness." How *exactly* did they improve your life (or anyone else's life), in objective terms? , but it has also been very interesting how they have ultimately played out for me. Sam Harris is also promoting those experiences in his new book Waking Up, a Guide to Spirituality without Religion. And, like you, without presenting a convincing reason WHY they might be valuable. These experiences can be fantastic, one can get attached to having them but as to how they can be interpreted is another question. What you are told in a particular tradition might not be a particularly good way to describe them if they tend to reinforce an impacted belief system. My view, at the moment, is the nervous system is relieving itself of something, but it is difficult to tell just what that something is. I would say the interesting spiritual experiences are just artefacts of the system normalising itself, so they are not really of real import. Then why "construct a system to give people these experiences?" If one is seeking heaven and trying to avoid hell, one is missing the point of the search, for the point is to discover the commonality of both, and avoid being sucked either way. WHY is anyone seeking *either*? And where did you make the connection between these "experiences of unboundedness" and "heaven" or "hell?" For me as time went on such experiences tended to damp out, everything kind of flattened out, until one day on a walk there was this shift in which the world, as it always had been, was identical with what I had been seeking. I'm not sure you get my point. You, like Sam Harris, are talking about finding alternative -- theoretically better or more benign -- methods of "giving people these experiences of unboundedness." But it strikes me that neither of you have ever taken a step back and told us WHY you or anyone else really *wants* these experiences in the first place, and more important, what objective *value* these experiences bring to your life or to the lives of others. I *understand* what you're saying...I think. I'm just pointing out that you and Harris both seem to sound as if you're inside a herd of lemmings presenting options for a new direction in which to run, without ever making a case for WHY you are running in the first place. :-)