Steve: I know, Curtis, you are a student of how the brain works, and I think 
you hold to the theory that  enlightenment, or higher awareness is a figment of 
our imagination.

M: I don't believe that the state of mind you develop is a figment of your 
imagination, I believe it is rooted in a biological change in the brain itself 
through many hours of practice in a certain type of meditation. I have it too. 
I just don't think that what people believe about it being a higher state of 
functioning has any evidence. I think it is enjoyable, may even help people who 
are hyper to settle down, but we really don't know much about what this change 
does to us other than folklore. And if we examine the lives of the purveyors of 
that folklore, we come up with a pretty ordinary person who has a highly 
inflated view of the value of their internal state.

You don't have to have any more reason to practice than that you like it as far 
as I am concerned. I am addressing the system itself and the founder, not an 
individual practitioner like yourself. What you dig is none of my business. I 
am the first person to understand loving meditation practice. But Maharishi 
made his theories my business so I come here to discuss his POV and theories 
against my own experiences and observations of his life.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 I guess that theory makes sense if you believe there is no such thing as 
enlightenment, or higher states of  consciousness, because it is my guess that 
many of those who were said to be enlightened suffered memory loss, dementia 
and impaired mental capacity as they aged. 

 So, either higher consciousness is a fraud, or there is a different 
explanation for it, and stabilized pure consciousness, which is said to be a 
trait of higher consciousness, remains intact.
 

 I feel like I've made some progress in refining my awareness over these past 
forty years, both from mediation and also just in living.
 

 I can easily see my mental capacity diminish, just as I see my physical 
abilities diminish currently.
 

 But I don't feel any diminishment in what I feel is that quieter part of my 
life.
 

 I feel like it will remain intact, no matter what.
 

 I know, Curtis, you are a student of how the brain works, and I think you hold 
to the theory that  enlightenment, or higher awareness is a figment of our 
imagination.
 

 I haven't come to that conclusion, and I think 40 plus years of being on 
something called a spiritual path has rooted out mood making.
 

 Or at least I hope so.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <LEnglish5@...> wrote :
 
 The logical conclusion is that, by Maharishi's theory, Maharishi wasn't 
perfectly enlightened. 

 Was there still question in your mind about this?

M: I place the belief in enlightenment on the same level as being saved so I 
suspect Maharishi harbored this fantasy as do most of his followers.

 

 L: I heard him talk about how the consciousness of the world wouldn't support 
the most refined states of consciousness and automatically assumed that he was 
giving everyone a subtle message about his own state of consciousness, but 
apparently many, many people refused to take the implications of MMY's 
statements seriously and made a mental exception for MMY and Gurudev.

M: Well then the consciousness of the world took a big downturn when he got old 
cuz he was not functioning very well at all. It might be easier to assume that 
his belief in enlightenment as a theory was contradicted by his own life.

 

 L:In fact, I pointed this implication out to a TM teacher and he explicitly 
said just that.
 

 You get the same thing with Christians asserting the divinity of Jesus in 
spite of him saying "There is none perfect; no, not one."

M: I am saying the emperor has no clothes, you are saying that no one covers 
all their skin as an excuse. All this after the fact explanation requires more 
unproven beliefs to be heaped on top of the old one. How the hell could anyone 
know about the "consciousness of the world." It is a meaningless conjecture to 
cover what is more obvious. Maharishi's programs did not even work on himself. 
That is why they hid him away in the end.

 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :

 I was struck by the posted interview between the Aussie and the Maharishi 
through closed circuit TV where Maharishi was unable to field a question about 
whether or not he could actually fly by going into "you kids get off of my 
lawn" mode. What struck me because I have spent quite a bit of time around old 
people in the last few years and it seemed obvious that Maharishi was clearly 
suffering from the diminished capacity of age and very likely dementia. He was 
not well.

This observation only matters because at the heart of a lot of the premises in 
TM is that the state of consciousness in enlightenment transcends the 
functioning of the brain. This is the premise on which we have claims about 
witnessing deep sleep for example, and all the conjectural nonsense surrounding 
what happens after a "conscious" enlightened death. It is stated in different 
ways as a premise underneath many claims about how a person functions in 
enlightenment.

We saw Maharishi, who in his salad days would have gigglingly swatted away such 
a direct question calling him on an outrageous claim, completely flummoxed and 
left with a broom in his hand chasing the local scamps out of his rutabaga 
patch.

How can it be that "consciousness development" can have an effect on the person 
after their brain stops functioning and rots, when it couldn't even weather the 
storm of old age for the supposedly most developed person, Maharishi himself? 
Apparently consciousness development has the same impact as imagination 
development when it comes  to being able to resist the ravages of age. Brain 
functioning trumps all imagination of it being otherwise. And the difference 
between Maharishi in old age and my own father can only be seen clearly in the 
zeros in their bank accounts. 
 










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