Curtis, basically I was really lucky. And really desperate! A romance ended. 
Around the same time, maybe '91 or '92, David Deida and his then wife Sophia, 
were in FF. I desperately wanted help with all that and so I went to the intro 
and started doing his workshops. Powerful stuff. Really way above my level of 
emotional maturity at that time. But it was the beginning of my search for 
emotional good health and I feel lucky that my search began with 2 teachers of 
such integrity and compassion.

Then in 2000 I had two huge thwacks on the back. I had to have my gallbladder 
removed and 6 months later my SO returned to his home in London. It took 2 more 
years and a burnout job and in 2002 I realized I had emotional issues to work 
on and that I needed expert help to do that. I realized it was not part of the 
TMO's "mission statement" and I was at peace with that. Also I wanted emotional 
healing even if it meant getting kicked out of the Dome! Which it didn't except 
that I was voluntarily out of the Dome for 7 years, from 2003-2010.

Concerning the teacher you mention, I once attended a free intro but did not 
feel comfortable with the vibe.  

      From: " [FairfieldLife]" 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 11:16 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7 Techniques to Handle Toxic People

Did you ever take Ali Najafee's SET seminars in Fairfield? I know someone who 
was there when they were going on and it seemed to strike a nerve doing exactly 
what you are talking about. There were massively popular back in the lat 80's. 
Since then there have been oodles of people through FF with this message John 
Gray, Barbara De Agangelis...

Although I am a fan of some emotional work, many of these courses had an 
assumptive cult vibe about their perspectives also. Assumptions on parade! That 
combined with taking advantage of meditator's imaginatively lively trance 

But this perspective is in direct conflict with Maharishi's teaching about 
these kinds of programs and their value to TM people. It says tat TM is not a 
complete self development program and that was not what Maharishi was teaching 
or selling. He was selling a solution to ALL problems and reflected the biases 
of his tradition which was "don't fix it, transcend it."

Personally I support whatever you find value in for you. Conceptually I see 
this as pretty clear evidence that the TM self development programs don't so 
what they claimed to do. This counter-evidence is being ignored and jeri rigged 
into a new system of self development that you guys are creating on your own in 
FF. (Not that there is anything wrong with that from outside the movement.)

Participating in these programs was explicitly discouraged by Maharishi, I 
never heard him say anything close to the conclusion you have drawn for 
yourself. I have no beef with the accommodations you have made to  make up for 
the programs' falures, good on ya sista! But my interest here is in Maharishi's 
teaching and in that context your perspective for what people need is hampered 
by an absolutist teaching that promises what it cannot deliver. We didn't hear 
the message wrong, the message was wrong. And it discourages people who could 
use some other kind of help from getting it. It enables people with real  
mental problems and when they blow up, the movement turns is back on them as 
damaged goods, victimizing the victim with the stigma of not living up to the 
unrealistic perfectionist standard in the movement.

Thanks for promoting conversation from different perspectives here Share. I 
think we are on the 
same page on that front.

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

Curtis, it's only recently that some spiritual groups, including the TMO, have 
recognized the importance of emotional good health and social intelligence to 
go along with the what empty hilariously calls "litement." Or maybe I should 
say that it's only recently that such groups realized that expert help might be 
needed in these areas. IOW, we don't tell someone with a toothache to get their 
meditation checked! So why not use experts for these other important areas of 
human development? 

And I see that even the SAND conference featured a panel that focused on, 
according to Rick's BAT intro, emotions and spirituality. It seems to be the 
hot topic these days and I am mightily relieved. 

I love it when disagreements on FFL revolve around ideas and evidence and 
rationality rather than personal attacks,no matter how cleverly worded. I'm 
aiming to be, as best as I can, the change I wanna see...

  From: "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]" <>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7 Techniques to Handle Toxic People
You know what is the dominate dynamic on FFL?

There is a group who criticizes the organization we were all a part of, the 
founder and the beliefs of the followers. (I am a proud member of this group.)

And a group who personally attacks their personal life with made-up assumptions 
about their state of mind and life in place of making a reasoned argument for 
the positive power of their beliefs.

The single counter argument for this group, no matter what detail of the 
movement and its beliefs are criticized seems to be : "Yeah but you are a poopy 
pants so neirner, neiner, neiner!"

This is a stunning indictment of the vocal supporters of Maharishi here that 
the sophistic tool of personal attack, complete with fabrications about the 
critics personal life and business, is the go-to weapon in practically every 

And let me cut off the "but. but, but he started it" routine. You guys are 
supposed to be representing the most precious knowledge of mankind and HIGHER 
states of consciousness. I am just an ordinary working artist. (Yeah, Nabs jump 
on that to prove my point, go ahead!) I am not the one making claims that I am 
in a permanent state of infused being or that I am somehow participating in the 
most important work for the future of mankind, saving the world for an actual 
example claim.

So when your reaction to me saying that Maharishi seemed to be a super 
ambitious guy selling a panacea (which he literally and explicitly WAS) is to 
attack what I do for a living, or make up that I am somehow not successful in 
my life or career which you could know NOTHING about...

you reveal that, like your self proclaimed "master" the emperor has no clothes. 

Just notice what you are about to type right now. Let's see if there is a 
response that makes a cogent point to reflect upon concerning the power and 
beauty of this knowledge you hold so dear...

or if it is the same old routine. I am gunna predict no response because I just 
took away the only response you got. I would love to be proven wrong. 
Conversation might actually break out here.

---In, <> wrote :

The strange thing is that one hardly sees so much anger and frustration in the 
real world as on FFL. Even people who deal with heavy problems like living on 
the streets, addicts of all kinds very often have the Insight to see from where 
their problems stem; themselves. Not so on FFL.Me thinks my old theory still 
holds; many of the participants here are quitters that jumped the ship that 
could have brought them safely across the Ocean (as Muktananda described TM). 
Unconsciously they know this but instead of analyzing themselves honestly they 
start to kick in all other directions than where a kick would be justified; 
their own butt. Add to this the fact that many have reached an age where 
bitterness and anger perhaps is irreversable.Particularily they blame the only 
Saint they ever knew for their failure not realizing he was only there to guide 
and inspire, the real work had to be done by the student himself. Not having 
the inclination towards self-discipline any path requires anger builds up and 
eventually catch fire - as seen on a daily basis by several poor souls here on 

---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

I don't understand this non-issue that Share has created. The article I posted, 
specifically listed seven techniques to deal with toxic people, and Share gets 
hung up on the title! She also has an awful lot to say about what "we" would 
do, if... I used it as an opportunity to use technique #1, "set limits", not 
that Share is toxic, but she sometimes writes, before thinking it through.
I recognize that B fits the stereotype of a toxic individual, with his button 
pushing and desire to "get in touch with his inner asshole" (his words, not 
mine...). However, I also recognize that his life is basically over - He 
doesn't have the strength for a jog around the block, and his mind is growing 
feeble. All my life I have defended the underdog, and even now, with B spouting 
his usual, I cannot get angry with him. My heart pities him. He doesn't have 
much of a life, and if he needs to spend it on here denigrating others, so be 
it. He is easy enough to ignore. 
I worked with a few people at the nursing home, filled both with rage and 
dementia, and there is not much to do, except wait for them to settle down of 
their own accord, usually after mealtimes.
As Nabby mentioned about these types, their self anger catches fire, and all we 
can do is watch it burn out of control.

---In, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

Ann, I'd say it depends on your intention, esp your general intention in 
living. Do you want to benefit yourself and others? Or do you want to do harm? 
As for the rest, I think it's pretty simple. If someone is harming us and won't 
stop, then we remove ourselves from their life. If someone is harming others 
and won't stop, then we put them in jail until they can be rehabilitated. 

Sometimes jail is not possible and I personally don't think jail cures anyone 
of anything, in fact, jail mostly makes bad guys badder. And of course you are 
talking about a criminal level of toxicity when you talk about jail. Most of 
the toxicity is not something you could incarcerate someone for. I'm talking 
garden variety toxicity.
Here online, if someone says something untrue, we say what is true. If someone 
says something we don't agree with, we say we don't agree. If someone is a 
jerk, we say we think that, ONE time. To say it over and over is imo a sign 
that the name caller is projecting and or venting.
I think a lot of the nastiness online is people venting what they are unwilling 
or unable to vent about in their 3D life.
If the asshole keeps on and on and on then one time is often not enough in 
terms of responding to it or attempting to deflect the untruths or negativity. 
When someone keeps farting in the room you just can't get away with opening the 
window once.
Again, my opinion.
Ditto.  From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 10:16 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7 Techniques to Handle Toxic People

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

Fleetwood, in many fairytales, if the king and queen don't invite the Wicked 
Witch to the birth celebration of their baby, then she arrives anyway and puts 
a curse on the little one! Meaning that we all have toxic elements in us to 
some degree. If we don't deal with them in a healthy way, then they show up in 
our life as allegedly toxic people, etc.

First you call people toxic. Next thing you know, you're burning them at the 
stake or leading them into the gas oven!
Is it okay to call someone as "asshole", "obnoxious", "annoying" or any other 
number of adjectives? Is it possible for people to actually be these things or 
are we merely putting our own subjective spin on how others act? Under what 
circumstances do we hold others responsible for their actions and effect on us 
or on others? What is the point where we say enough is enough? Or do we simply 
accept the behaviour of others as none of our business even when it impacts our 

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