On 11/4/2014 11:31 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

One in particular

/There is one informant posting to this group who seems to really enjoy criticizing our leaders for not doing a good job helping the Maharishi spread his meditation message.

I'm convinced that Barry and Curtis and Edg did all they could for the movement, and did well considering the circumstances - these are some smart guys. So, I don't agree at all that these guys were insincere doing the Work. ///

That was their job - who cares if they sucked at it? /That's dedication to a cause and a true service to help others. It's not important if they became enlightened or not - following the path IS enlightenment. //

But, it must be cognitive dissonance on steroids when they read here that they are being accused of lying through their teeth for a couple of decades, trying to sell a snake-oil religion for a fake yogi, and that they gave all the money to him and his relatives over in India. That's highly insulting in my book!
/If true, they spent two lost decades out of their life living in a trance-induction state.

continues to rant about it every day, religiously, in fact.

/It's all about Barry and Curtis./

/According to one FFL informant, they were compelled to bow down on their hands and knees inside a golden dome for hours every day; forced to work near slave labor in kitchens and hotels; live in a trailer, pod or an office building; not allowed to enjoy sexual contact with anyone for years; forced to attend religious indoctrination seminars, but often confined to their rooms except for an occasional boat ride; and forced to attend yoga camps at obscure locations - and not even allowed to go across the street to buy an ice cream cone. It's just outrageous!

//Some people do move on - they go to school, get an education and graduate, and then they work and raise a family. Some go on to be happy chefs and/or artists or successful business owners.

///Others just seem to remain on the same level all their life, with a few interspersed failures, bitter, angry and constantly complaining about the choices they made in the distant past. /Go figure.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :

We seem to have some grumpy old men here who actually believe that some of the folks take what they call "woo woo" things very seriously. Actually a number of people are just curious and want to see if there's anything to them.

On 11/04/2014 09:16 AM, curtisdeltablues@... <mailto:curtisdeltablues@...> [FairfieldLife] wrote:


    Did you ever take Ali Najafee's SET seminars in Fairfield? I know
    someone who was there when they were going on and it seemed to
    strike a nerve doing exactly what you are talking about. There
    were massively popular back in the lat 80's. Since then there
    have been oodles of people through FF with this message John
    Gray, Barbara De Agangelis...

    Although I am a fan of some emotional work, many of these courses
    had an assumptive cult vibe about their perspectives also.
    Assumptions on parade! That combined with taking advantage of
    meditator's imaginatively lively trance states.

    But this perspective is in direct conflict with Maharishi's
    teaching about these kinds of programs and their value to TM
    people. It says tat TM is not a complete self development program
    and that was not what Maharishi was teaching or selling. He was
    selling a solution to ALL problems and reflected the biases of
    his tradition which was "don't fix it, transcend it."

    Personally I support whatever you find value in for you.
    Conceptually I see this as pretty clear evidence that the TM self
    development programs don't so what they claimed to do. This
    counter-evidence is being ignored and jeri rigged into a new
    system of self development that you guys are creating on your own
    in FF. (Not that there is anything wrong with that from outside
    the movement.)

    Participating in these programs was explicitly discouraged by
    Maharishi, I never heard him say anything close to the conclusion
    you have drawn for yourself. I have no beef with the
    accommodations you have made to  make up for the programs'
    falures, good on ya sista! But my interest here is in Maharishi's
    teaching and in that context your perspective for what people
    need is hampered by an absolutist teaching that promises what it
    cannot deliver. We didn't hear the message wrong, the message was
    wrong. And it discourages people who could use some other kind of
    help from getting it. It enables people with real  mental
    problems and when they blow up, the movement turns is back on
    them as damaged goods, victimizing the victim with the stigma of
    not living up to the unrealistic perfectionist standard in the

    Thanks for promoting conversation from different perspectives
    here Share. I think we are on the
    same page on that front.

    ---In fairfieldli...@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:fairfieldli...@yahoogroups.com>, <sharelong60@...>
    <mailto:sharelong60@...> wrote :

    Curtis, it's only recently that some spiritual groups, including
    the TMO, have recognized the importance of emotional good health
    and social intelligence to go along with the what empty
    hilariously calls "litement." Or maybe I should say that it's
    only recently that such groups realized that expert help might be
    needed in these areas. IOW, we don't tell someone with a
    toothache to get their meditation checked! So why not use experts
    for these other important areas of human development?

    And I see that even the SAND conference featured a panel that
    focused on, according to Rick's BAT intro, emotions and
    spirituality. It seems to be the hot topic these days and I am
    mightily relieved.

    I love it when disagreements on FFL revolve around ideas and
    evidence and rationality rather than personal attacks,no matter
    how cleverly worded. I'm aiming to be, as best as I can, the
    change I wanna see...

    *From:* "curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife]"
    *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    *Sent:* Tuesday, November 4, 2014 10:23 AM
    *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7 Techniques to Handle Toxic People

    You know what is the dominate dynamic on FFL?

    There is a group who criticizes the organization we were all a
    part of, the founder and the beliefs of the followers. (I am a
    proud member of this group.)

    And a group who personally attacks their personal life with
    made-up assumptions about their state of mind and life in place
    of making a reasoned argument for the positive power of their

    The single counter argument for this group, no matter what detail
    of the movement and its beliefs are criticized seems to be :
    "Yeah but you are a poopy pants so neirner, neiner, neiner!"

    This is a stunning indictment of the vocal supporters of
    Maharishi here that the sophistic tool of personal attack,
    complete with fabrications about the critics personal life and
    business, is the go-to weapon in practically every response.

    And let me cut off the "but. but, but he started it" routine. You
    guys are supposed to be representing the most precious knowledge
    of mankind and HIGHER states of consciousness. I am just an
    ordinary working artist. (Yeah, Nabs jump on that to prove my
    point, go ahead!) I am not the one making claims that I am in a
    permanent state of infused being or that I am somehow
    participating in the most important work for the future of
    mankind, saving the world for an actual example claim.

    So when your reaction to me saying that Maharishi seemed to be a
    super ambitious guy selling a panacea (which he literally and
    explicitly WAS) is to attack what I do for a living, or make up
    that I am somehow not successful in my life or career which you
    could know NOTHING about...

    you reveal that, like your self proclaimed "master" the emperor
    has no clothes.

    Just notice what you are about to type right now. Let's see if
    there is a response that makes a cogent point to reflect upon
    concerning the power and beauty of this knowledge you hold so dear...

    or if it is the same old routine. I am gunna predict no response
    because I just took away the only response you got. I would love
    to be proven wrong. Conversation might actually break out here.

    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :

    The strange thing is that one hardly sees so much anger and
    frustration in the real world as on FFL. Even people who deal
    with heavy problems like living on the streets, addicts of all
    kinds very often have the Insight to see from where their
    problems stem; themselves. Not so on FFL.
    Me thinks my old theory still holds; many of the participants
    here are quitters that jumped the ship that could have brought
    them safely across the Ocean (as Muktananda described TM).
    Unconsciously they know this but instead of analyzing themselves
    honestly they start to kick in all other directions than where a
    kick would be justified; their own butt. Add to this the fact
    that many have reached an age where bitterness and anger perhaps
    is irreversable.
    Particularily they blame the only Saint they ever knew for their
    failure not realizing he was only there to guide and inspire, the
    real work had to be done by the student himself. Not having the
    inclination towards self-discipline any path requires anger
    builds up and eventually catch fire - as seen on a daily basis by
    several poor souls here on FFL.

    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <fleetwood_macncheese@...> <mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

    I don't understand this non-issue that Share has created. The
    article I posted, specifically listed seven techniques to deal
    with toxic people, and Share gets hung up on the title! She also
    has an awful lot to say about what "we" would do, if... I used it
    as an opportunity to use technique #1, "set limits", not that
    Share is toxic, but she sometimes writes, before thinking it

    I recognize that B fits the stereotype of a toxic individual,
    with his button pushing and desire to "get in touch with his
    inner asshole" (his words, not mine...). However, I also
    recognize that his life is basically over - He doesn't have the
    strength for a jog around the block, and his mind is growing
    feeble. All my life I have defended the underdog, and even now,
    with B spouting his usual, I cannot get angry with him. My heart
    pities him. He doesn't have much of a life, and if he needs to
    spend it on here denigrating others, so be it. He is easy enough
    to ignore.

    I worked with a few people at the nursing home, filled both with
    rage and dementia, and there is not much to do, except wait for
    them to settle down of their own accord, usually after mealtimes.

    As Nabby mentioned about these types, their self anger catches
    fire, and all we can do is watch it burn out of control.

    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <awoelflebater@...>
    <mailto:awoelflebater@...> wrote :

    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <sharelong60@...>
    <mailto:sharelong60@...> wrote :

    Ann, I'd say it depends on your intention, esp your general
    intention in living. Do you want to benefit yourself and others?
    Or do you want to do harm? As for the rest, I think it's pretty
    simple. If someone is harming us and won't stop, then we remove
    ourselves from their life. If someone is harming others and won't
    stop, then we put them in jail until they can be rehabilitated.

    Sometimes jail is not possible and I personally don't think jail
    cures anyone of anything, in fact, jail mostly makes bad guys
    badder. And of course you are talking about a criminal level of
    toxicity when you talk about jail. Most of the toxicity is not
    something you could incarcerate someone for. I'm talking garden
    variety toxicity.

    Here online, if someone says something untrue, we say what is
    true. If someone says something we don't agree with, we say we
    don't agree. If someone is a jerk, we say we think that, ONE
    time. To say it over and over is imo a sign that the name caller
    is projecting and or venting.
    I think a lot of the nastiness online is people venting what they
    are unwilling or unable to vent about in their 3D life.

    If the asshole keeps on and on and on then one time is often not
    enough in terms of responding to it or attempting to deflect the
    untruths or negativity. When someone keeps farting in the room
    you just can't get away with opening the window once.

    Again, my opinion.

    *From:* "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]"
    *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2014 10:16 AM
    *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7 Techniques to Handle Toxic People

    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <sharelong60@...>
    <mailto:sharelong60@...> wrote :

    Fleetwood, in many fairytales, if the king and queen don't invite
    the Wicked Witch to the birth celebration of their baby, then she
    arrives anyway and puts a curse on the little one! Meaning that
    we all have toxic elements in us to some degree. If we don't deal
    with them in a healthy way, then they show up in our life as
    allegedly toxic people, etc.

    First you call people toxic. Next thing you know, you're burning
    them at the stake or leading them into the gas oven!

    Is it okay to call someone as "asshole", "obnoxious", "annoying"
    or any other number of adjectives? Is it possible for people to
    actually be these things or are we merely putting our own
    subjective spin on how others act? Under what circumstances do we
    hold others responsible for their actions and effect on us or on
    others? What is the point where we say enough is enough? Or do we
    simply accept the behaviour of others as none of our business
    even when it impacts our lives?

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