Yep, it gets messy - On the other hand, without technology, many of us wouldn't 
be alive, period. 

---In, <noozguru@...> wrote :

 The moral dilemma of our times though is that our medical practices may allow 
us to extend life when someone is terminally ill beyond where they may have 
died if they didn't do anything about the illness.
 On 11/06/2014 08:40 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... 
mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

   Yeah, I have been aware of this also, that if suicide is done, the person 
must wait out their karma. It is not a moral issue, but one of complicating 
one's life, by destroying the physical vessel. The lesson learned is that we 
cannot ever be destroyed, and if a suicide, the lesson is learned, while 
<noozguru@...> mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 I recall Charlie Lutes take on the subject that though suicide is frowned on 
in the yogic traditions he could see doing when facing prolonged agony like 
from a slow death by cancer.  In the eastern traditions including Buddhism they 
believe that if you commit suicide you get stuck in some "middle world". 
 The published suicide mantra is of the maran class and is also an Agni mantra.
 On 11/06/2014 04:27 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   John and turq, what got me rethinking all this is that idea of life full of 
possibilities to enjoy. Is it healthy to give up on that? Is it honoring, turq 
of life itself to give up on the possibility of joy and love? And turq, is not 
suicide also often driven by FEAR? Since you're using presence of fear as a 
measuring stick.


 At this moment I'm thinking that what's healthiest is to act from a place of 
embodied settledness rather than fear. And we can't really predict what action 
might thus result. And can we really legislate about people's states of being?! 

 From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" 
 Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:11 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is it Moral to Commit Suicide?
   In other words, it's a Big Invisible Daddy In The Sky thang, Share. If you 
do something He don't like, He slap yo ass.  :-)
 JohnR's position on all of this is just a retread of that same old familiar F 
E A R that has driven religious thought for centuries: "'Morality' consists of 
doing what *we* say to do during your life so that Bad Things don't happen to 
you after your death." 


 From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <>
 Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is it Moral to Commit Suicide?

 Taking one's own life is similar to killing another person.  In both cases, a 
life, that is full of possibilities to perform good and to enjoy life, has been 
taken away and denied.  The act of killing oneself or another person is against 
Nature's functioning, which is to create life and to promote joy in existence.

 The violation of natural law will have consequences or bad karma in yourself, 
the family or the environment.  The following adage would apply: you reap what 
you sow.

<sharelong60@...> mailto:sharelong60@... wrote :
 John, I don't see how the principle of ends not justifying means fits in this 
situation. The person is taking their own life, probably to avoid unnecessary 
suffering. What is morally wrong about that, in your view?
 From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is it Moral to Commit Suicide?

 The correct answer is that one should follow one's conscience to the best of 
his or her ability.  But one should follow the principle that the end does not 
justify the means.  IMO, ending one's own life through suicide is not following 
the principle above.

<sharelong60@...> mailto:sharelong60@... wrote :
 John, I'm not sure that suicide is always in violation of natural law. What 
makes you think that?
 From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 4:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is it Moral to Commit Suicide?

 I sympathize with your step Dad's suffering.  My mother also had a very 
painful and difficult death.  It is not easy to follow a moral act and, as 
humans, we should be able to make such choices.  But one has to be mindful of 
performing acts that do not violate natural laws.

 If we violate natural laws, IMO the law of karma will take effect and could 
detrimentally affect our families and society that allow violence or suicide to 
<sharelong60@...> mailto:sharelong60@... wrote :
 John,when I think about how awful were the last 3 years of my step Dad's life, 
and more than once he expressed the wish to be dead, I think suicide is 
sometimes the right thing to do. I think unnecessary suffering is morally 
 From: "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" <>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Is it Moral to Commit Suicide?

 You've raised a good question.  But it is considered a higher principle that 
the end does not justify the means.  In other words, one must act licitly to 
make a moral act.  You cannot kill another person or group of persons in order 
to obtain political power--which we can see the evil effects that are happening 
in Iraq and Syria.  Similarly, the same principle applies to taking one's own 
<noozguru@...> mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 If you were suffering from terminal brain cancer would you really want to see 
it through to the end as your mind, vision, hearing went away?
 On 11/04/2014 10:36 AM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] 

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