Actually I kind of skipped over what you said, and was thinking about the post 
at the bottom of the message you had replied to, not having time to look up the 
original message. Very unclear what I was responding to.  

 As regards what you wrote, if people collect experiences, that is are attached 
to the memory of them, it does change them in some way, because they did not do 
this sort of thing prior to their having had them. I also do not think egoic 
fear is necessarily the driver either. The ego lives for change, for variety, 
that is what keeps it going. The mind also needs memories, otherwise it could 
not even know it was enlightened, so some collection of experience is required; 
the memory of enough kinds of experiences eventually clues the mind into 
letting go of attachment to them. If experiences did not expand, the mind would 
remain as it was. The mind does need something to keep the expansion of 
experience from simply becoming a stagnant collection, which as you say becomes 
like a graveyard. The mind has to correlate the experiences in a way it can 
learn from them. And if it learns something, it has to be able to remember what 
it learned.

---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 I wasn't talking about TM. Please read it again.

---In, <anartaxius@...> wrote :

 Turq did practise TM for a number of years. If what you say is true, TM was a 
total failure. This seems to be a problem with spiritual techniques in general, 
that most of the time they fail, if we go by our view of the persons practising 
them, and even according what these persons they say to us about their 
experiences. Success is rare.

---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 Yes, preliminary. The thing about experiences, even intermittent witnessing, 
is that some people collect these experiences, while remaining unchanged, 
themselves. Driven by egoic fear. It is like being a tourist of 
higher-consciousness experiences. I did listen to a bit of the Sat Shree 
interview and he says a veil, separating him from the rest of the universe, was 
torn open, with no possibility of being repaired. To live Being, silence, and 
bliss, is a far different thing, than collecting, "I saw this", and, "this 
happened once", and, "for awhile, this other thing happened". Enlightenment is 
not an aggregate, a museum, or even, a mausoleum, of experiences - that's how 
religions get born, in the graveyards of memories, of higher consciousness.  

 Experiences, as seen in the mind, continually shrink - very unsatisfying, 
whereas enlightenment constantly, effortlessly taps that font of creativity and 
expansion [pure awareness], renewing itself, so the mind, when it does act, has 
no need to rely on stale and shrinking memories - it can go anywhere it 
chooses, or just rest empty, in pure awareness. Once everything is available, 
there is no longer a need to collect experiences of any variety, no matter how 
tantalizing their memory may be.
---In, <> wrote :

 The Turq hasn't had any spiritual experiences in his whole life. Forty-five 
years ago he experienced a few days of witnessing in Fiuggji, but that's only a 
preliminary experience. Yet he likes to brag about it even today, decades 
later. Later he had some hallucinations about his Buddhist-guru, the Lenz-guy 
who killed himself while wearing a dog-collar around his neck, levitating. And 
that's it. The fact is that the Turq-fellow never had any spiritual experiences 
at all.
 Yet he judge others, what a phony.


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