salyavin, aha indeed! Since you don't believe in God, instead of saying my 
usual about God's sense of humor, I'll ponder if the bacteria had/have a sense 
of humor (-:
>From you first and second paragraphs, I'm wondering if you're 
>equating"explanatory knowledge" with being fully self aware. They seem like 2 
>things to me. Maybe a developmental neuroscientist could shed some light by 
>studying the behavior of babies. Are they able to figure stuff out, like where 
>the cookies are hidden, before they become aware of "my toes" and a "me"?
      From: salyavin808 <>
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 4:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Okay, let's put it on the table: UFOs

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

Ah, Salyavin, deep human needs indeed! What do you think is the deepest one? To 
understand? To survive? Or is it about us at all? 
Must be to understand. Once all the basics are fulfilled anyway. Our brains 
seem designed to generate explanations about where we are what's going on, it's 
endless. Would love to know when it started, the ability to create explanatory 
knowledge is what sets us apart from our chimp cousins but as things like that 
don't fossilise it's difficult to say when it might have happened. All we have 
to go on is cave paintings or marks on sticks but they could be part of a long 
evolution of self awareness. 
I wonder what it was like to be only half self-aware? Impossible to know as the 
bit that does the imagining is the bit that wasn't there yet....There's a 
concept to ponder!
I remember a post of yours a while back. Something about our being mere 
vehicles for the bacteria to evolve. I bet I'm remembering it inaccurately. 
Anyway, I can't resist saying that when you say "enjoy the ride" I think of 
Maharishi saying "enjoy."  (-:

Yes, we are all descended from bacteria and the only reason we are here at all 
is because DNA is imperfect at copying itself and keeps making mistakes that 
change the outcomes of the copying and increasing complexity. Not as exciting a 
creation myth as some of the others people have come up with but they wouldn't 
be able to come up with them if it hadn't happened. Aha!
  From: salyavin808 <>
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 3:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Okay, let's put it on the table: UFOs

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

Salyavin, I love your last paragraph: folklore in action; techno ghost stories 
for the nuclear age. As for me, I believe there is life somewhere else in the 
vast universe. And I think they are more highly advanced than us and maybe here 
with us. And I think it's great. 
We can believe what we like. I have no opinion on intelligent life elsewhere, 
we don't know the variables that allow for it to develop. We could be unique or 
the universe could be teeming or maybe there's just one or two per galaxy over 
it's entire history. But the chances of there being other humanoids visiting 
Earth at the just same time as we've understood where we are cosmically? It 
beggars belief. Alien craft is the least likely explanation for UFO's. But I 
hope it's true.
But at that point, I'm more like turq. It doesn't really impact my life one way 
or the other. Either way, what is the action step? (-:

I don't know, just enjoy the ride, the evolving myth. We are apparently on the 
brink of something called "disclosure". We've been here before a few times as I 
recall, it never amounts to much but it's fun watching the TB's get excited 
that their favourite daydream is to be officially confirmed. 
But it won't be, the UFO's won't land and Maitreya won't appear. It's the way 
of things. The connection between the two is that people want there to be more, 
want there to be a reason and for there to be salvation from a higher power, 
whether it's alien or spiritual. We're talking deep human needs here.
  From: salyavin808 <>
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 3:06 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Okay, let's put it on the table: UFOs

---In, <> wrote :

Sal doesn't like UFO's because they aren't scientific :-)
It's an interesting point Nabs. The thing is one can only get scientific about 
something if it is available to study, UFO's are so fleeting and ephemeral that 
there really isn't anything to study other than hearsay or suspiciously absent 
film taken by higher powers to keep the whole thing secret.
But a great many people have studied what they can about UFO sightings, and 
done it with as much rigour as you can with such a paucity of hard evidence. 
I'm not sure there is an encounter that hasn't got a better explanation that 
doesn't involve us being visited by beings from another world. And I don't just 
mean explaining things away, to be convincing you have to show that something 
more realistic happened, more credible and using explanations we already 
understand and are known to happen in certain circumstances. Even testing soil 
damage and skin burns for alternative causes. People are being scientific about 
But here's the thing you overlook in your quip, I've been interested in UFO's 
for as long as I remember, I've a got a shelf full of the classic books on the 
subject. Even the true believer stuff from "serious" researchers like Timothy 
Good and the abductionists like Bud Hopkins. I bet I know all the great 
encounters by heart - Cortile, Ramirez, Roswell, Pascagoula, Ilkley Moor, 
I love it but I don't take it at face value. To me, UFO's are folklore in 
action. The evolving myth of abduction and what they are supposedly doing here 
are the legends of our time, a new religion, encapsulating our fears about 
technology and promising us freedom from our destructive ways, yet always 
remaining remarkably evidence free. There's always a new vision to add to the 
mythos but conveniently never any hard evidence to help decide one way or the 
other. And the longer that scenario goes on the more convinced any casual 
observer should be that we are kidding ourselves, because deep down we like 
ghost stories and that's really what they are. Something scary always just out 
of reach. Techno ghost stories for the nuclear age.

Former Astronaut Explains The UFO Cover-Up 2013 1080p HD
|  |
|  |     |  |     Former Astronaut Explains The UFO Cover-Up 2013 ... Edgar 
Dean Mitchell, Sc.D. is an American pilot, retired Captain in the United States 
Navy and NASA astronaut. As the lunar module pilot of Apollo 14, ... |  |
|     View on       |   Preview by Yahoo  |
|  |

---In, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :

I didn't really read what sal has written below, but I think the gist of it is, 
that he doesn't like the person who coined the word "flying saucer"
Is that what his dissertation is about this time?

---In, <> wrote :

There is not one astronaut who has NOT reported seeing UFO's, sometimes huge 
and in large nubers, back to NASA and/or their families.

---In, <> wrote :

---In, <> wrote :

If Gordon is not crazy, then the American government is purposefully, 
mindfully, ABSOLUTELY evil.

If there are aliens visiting us and we're not being told -- it robs every 
person on Earth.


Neither you, nor I, nor anyone ever could possibly be who we are now if we knew 
that UFOs are real.


And that's why it might be kept a secret -- the concept "money" would be bereft 
of allure.

If you say that it would NOT be "all that much of a big deal, cuz everyone's so 
inured already by Hollywood films," then YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT 

Every person in every way:  changed.
Agreed. Luckily I don;t suppose it will come to that. Which is a shame as I'd 
be the happiest person on Earth if it turned out that UFO's were alien 
spacecraft, but the truth of sightings always turns out to be more mundane.
Take the name "flying saucers", everyone sees saucer shaped craft but the name 
is a mistake from the first encounter anyone had. Kenneth Arnold (an 
experienced pilot) saw a squadron of highly reflective crescent shaped aircraft 
flying at great speed in a V formation over the Rocky mountains in 1947. He 
described them as flying like a saucer would if skipped across water. 
A journalist made up the name flying saucer and after that everyone saw saucer 
shaped craft when they saw something mysterious in the sky. The power of 
suggestion. Sadly there's no such thing as a reliable witness and any one can 
be fooled, Arnold most likely saw a flock of pelicans and mistook them for 
unknown aircraft and miscalculated their distance from him. We all make 
mistakes but the influence his mistake had is immeasurable. 
Because we people are so unreliable, if I had to bet I would say that Cooper 
saw some atmospheric effect from flying at supersonic speed that no one had 
noticed before and mistook it for real craft moving above him. 
And early radar was hopelessly unreliable, the UK air defence system in the 
cold war was always telling us that giant UFOs were crossing the north sea but 
when planes were scrambled to look it turned out to have been temperature 
inversions confusing the equipment. When these anomalies were understood and 
ironed out UFO reports stopped coming in. It's the way it goes, people see 
stuff and imagination plugs any gaps, popular culture is rife with imagery that 
came before the sightings. I can't trust myself let alone anyone else!
I would like to see this film they took though but, I don't suppose we ever 
will. That's the way it's always been with UFO's, you get an incredible story 
that turns out to be something else or not to have any supporting evidence for 
whatever reason, and so much of it is easily explained away. I wish it were 
otherwise. I wish it were true. I want to believe!
But it'd be a most curious coincidence if a journalist's artistic license in 
describing saucers actually coincided with real saucers appearing from another 
world. What are the chances of that?

Astronaut Gordon Cooper Talks About UFOs

|  |
|  |     |  |     Astronaut Gordon Cooper Talks About UFOs Mercury 9 and Gemini 
5 astronaut Gordon Cooper talks about his UFO sightings and experiences. Okay, 
since somebody is questioning about UFO footage and Yo... |  |
|     View on       |   Preview by Yahoo  |
|  |

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