As Marilyn Manson deliberately chose as his stage name (Charles) Manson's 
surname he clearly gets a kick out of winding up people. The trailer I posted 
is a shock-fest alright and if the final movie is just that non-stop onslaught 
I'd be walking out of the cinema after ten minutes (a full nine minutes after 
you obviously!). I'm assuming that in the rest of the film it is planned to 
give some kind of narrative development that could be more bearable.
 The Valerie film from 1969 I also mentioned is highly thought of by the 
critics and if you are "drawn to the macabre and the dark" you should enjoy it. 
Actually, it's too "camp" to be particularly dark - it's even quite innocent. 
The kind of surreal and dreamy atmosphere that permeates Valerie is what really 
appeals to me.


---In, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :


---In, <noozguru@...> wrote :

 On 11/17/2014 08:33 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:


<awoelflebater@...> mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote :
<s3raphita@...> mailto:s3raphita@... wrote :
 This could be a complete shambles - or it could be fantastic.
 Phantasmagoria: The Visions of Lewis Carroll is a planned fantasy-horror film 
by Marilyn Manson that has been in development since 2004! Directed by Marilyn 
Manson it stars Marilyn as Lewis Carroll, English model Lily Cole as Alice, 
Evan Rachel Wood as Alice's alter ego and British actress Tilda Swinton as 
Lewis Carroll's dream wife (the real Lewis Carroll never married). The 
"trailer" is adult and avant-garde. I hope Marilyn gets to finish it.
 Prepare yourself . . .;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA&amp;index=5;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA&amp;index=5
 I think I would give this a wide pass. I can tell it's going to be a loser and 
I didn't even look at the trailer. Chalk it up to intuition.
 So, I just watched about half of that and I have a few observations and a few 

 I found myself getting angry watching this. Then I had to ask myself why was I 
getting angry? And I realized a couple of things. Although this thing is truly 
horrific and some of the images could stay ingrained your mind for quite some 
time I have to say, what is the goddamned point? Do we really lack enough 
horrific events in everyday life that we need to recreate more on a big screen 
and dole it out to some audience under the guise that this is somehow about 
Lewis Carroll? That somehow Marilyn Manson, of all people, has an inside track 
on what animated the man? Marilyn Manson is a freak show. If he feels compelled 
to spew more ugliness and violence into the world then he needs a reality 
check. Ugliness and violence are everywhere - in you and in me and in every 
other sentient being that walks the earth - especially if they are human. A 
whole lot of the imagery involved dismembered bodies, female bodies and the sex 
and the blood and the implied and also graphic imagery gives voice to a really 
twisted vision. There is suggested violence against animals as well. It is not 
hard to get a rise out of people,  if you want to make a viewer squeamish or 
indignant or sick or horrified it is not hard and it is not art. Sometimes when 
you see a thing you are also given a visceral impression, a clear indication 
that it is best not to allow certain images/vibrations/content into your body 
and brain. This appears to be one of those things. Anybody?

 Line on water for me. Didn't give me much of an indication of where he wants 
to go with this but a movie based on the life of Lewis Carroll could be very 
compelling.  As for horror, I watch movies more horrific than this.  There is a 
saying by tantrics, "you never know when death will come and it could come in 
horrific situations so being prepared for it is a good idea." Watching bad 
films is hardly preparing one for a horrific death. I love horror stories, I 
read that genre all the time. I have always been drawn to the macabre and the 
dark but there comes a point where to tread too deeply into certain memes is 
almost dangerous. I have encountered danger doing so and the menace of evil had 
also sought me out, unbidden. I am careful. The Manson film taps into something 
quite powerful and he has managed to create something that I, personally, would 
be wary of. I also believe that females are more sensitive than many males. 
Call it stereotyping and it may well be, but in my experience women have a 
sensibility that can be shattered more easily than a man's. 
 If you want to watch something truly horrific find the Vice YouTube report on 
 Yes, that is pretty horrifying and mystifying at the same time.

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