The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 

 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success 
rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were 
actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be 

 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after 
day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very 
notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after 
this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, 
we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack 
mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they 
don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... 
And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening 
loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who 
have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.'

 The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to 
have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about 
what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment 
is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is 
something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that 
you discount it entirely.

---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :

 MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to 
fulfill my desires.

 From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's 
enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and 
over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 
10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace.


 From: "Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people 
enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, 
I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment.  Maybe they use 
different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are 
pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. 
The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing 
and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me 
whether or not they're "enlightened." There are other qualities that I value 

 From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
 From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"

 On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
   It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always 
gotten a chuckle from "TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet," 
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce 
even a single person they can point at and say, "This person is enlightened, 
and got that way as a result of practicing TM."

 What organization does?

 Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, 
think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything 
else being sold on this planet:
 -- "So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and 
we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years."  (Please note 
that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)
 -- "Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I 
can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but 
tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra 
courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince 
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and 
that if it does, it's worth it?
 -- "Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the 
lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have 
everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of 
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?"
 -- "It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 
'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many 
people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out 
the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is 
all going to be worth it."
 -- "Sorry. <insert reverential tone of bullshit here> 'We don't talk about our 
individual state of consciousness.'"
 -- "WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this 
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can 
guarantee has achieved it?"
 -- "That's right."
 -- "You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to 
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?"
 -- "You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this 
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker."  

 It's a "path to enlightenment" but my point was that no organization I know of 
guarantees it.  You can't.  It even goes against TM teaching because one's 
progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system.  And by no means 
would it be the fastest.  It really is just a meditation for the masses.  It's 
nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the 
other front runners. 


 Bhairitu, it's not "guaranteeing enlightenment" that I'm riffing on for 
hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never 
*producing* it I'm riffing on. 

 That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too 
stupid to ever say, "Now wait a minute...where are all these enlightened people 
you promised me I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to me. Show 
me an enlightened person." 

 Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the counterpart 
of the line in the fairy tale that goes, "Uh, *have* noticed that 
the Emperor has no clothes on, right?" Asked to put up or shut up and actually 
*produce* a "certified TM enlightened person," the TMO wouldn't have been able 
to do so. 


 It's all a house of cards perpetuated by the fact that no one ever says, "Show 
me an enlightened person." 










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