Some funny points, like enlightenment would be an LSD trip. Hilarious what the 
mind imagines as a peaceful state, prior to accomplishing it. The ironic thing 
is, that once the state establishes itself, the world changes to one that was 
unimaginable anyway, because there is finally peace within, and that changes 
everything. As for the personality traits, I find myself more sensitive as the 
natural expansion of life continues, but otherwise, the main change is the lack 
of attachment, evident in CC, and so the personality actually gains a greater 
range, because there is nothing, except judgment, holding it back - everything 
becomes known, but not everything is expressed. That non-attachment allows the 
mind to go anywhere it likes; many more cultural and natural edges to explore.  

 As far as old souls, I don't know what is old, except I do know some younger 
people who are fully enlightened, without having done any techniques, and who 
have absolutely no interest in spiritual pursuits like meditation. It is not a 
compartmentalized world for them, like it was for us, with a dedicated 
spiritual path - That sensitivity and awareness is already baked in, so 
although they recognize spiritual life and God as natural components to life, 
those elements have no special significance, because they came onto the planet 
with that consciousness, already.  
 ---In, <noozguru@...> wrote :
 I've always said the "experiencing enlightenment" is the thing to say even if 
it is for a few minutes a day.  Honestly, I think some folks believe that 
enlightenment will put them in a perpetual state of celestial consciousness as 
if you were always on LSD.  That, of course, would not be very practical.  
Basically it is an "inner silence" which is not pervasive or you could never 
deal with everyday situations.  You'd just have to sit there like a lump.  
People here who experience that "inner silence" (and I believe there are 
probably more than a few here who do) know that they have it when they focus on 
it but when they need to focus on worldly things it doesn't get in the way.
 I know a number of people who even just doing TM will say "CC was a long time 
ago." Whether you got there or not seems to depend on your nervous system or 
maybe if you are more spiritually inclined then development in past 
incarnations. People like to say that those who popped into are probably "old 
souls."  So even the spiritual community will have a group who is sorry to say 
"left behind."  If you could force them into enlightenment they might not be 
able to handle it. 
 Believe me, I also know people who practiced TM and said they never 
experienced transcendence just some relaxation. I hope they only paid no more 
than $75 for it then.
 Another faux paus is that some people believe there are personality markers 
that indicate "enlightenment". That is not true at all.  So you can't judge the 
"book by it's cover" especially on the Internet.  ;-) 
 On 11/18/2014 11:26 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people 
enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, 
I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment.  Maybe they use 
different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are 
pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. 
 The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing 
and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me 
whether or not they're "enlightened." There are other qualities that I value 
 From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
   From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"

 On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
   It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always 
gotten a chuckle from "TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet," 
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce 
even a single person they can point at and say, "This person is enlightened, 
and got that way as a result of practicing TM."

 What organization does?

 Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, 
think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything 
else being sold on this planet:
 -- "So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and 
we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years."  (Please note 
that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)
 --"Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I 
can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but 
tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra 
courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince 
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and 
that if it does, it's worth it?
 -- "Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the 
lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have 
everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of 
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?"
 --"It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 
'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many 
people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out 
the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is 
all going to be worth it."
 -- "Sorry. <insert reverential tone of bullshit here> 'We don't talk about our 
individual state of consciousness.'"
 --"WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this 
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can 
guarantee has achieved it?"
 -- "That's right."
 --"You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to 
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?"
 -- "You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this 
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker."  

 It's a "path to enlightenment" but my point was that no organization I know of 
guarantees it.  You can't.  It even goes against TM teaching because one's 
progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system.  And by no means 
would it be the fastest.  It really is just a meditation for the masses.  It's 
nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the 
other front runners. 


 Bhairitu, it's not "guaranteeing enlightenment" that I'm riffing on for 
hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never 
*producing* it I'm riffing on. 
 That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too 
stupid to ever say, "Now wait a minute...where are all these enlightened people 
you promised me I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to me. Show 
me an enlightened person." 

 Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the counterpart 
of the line in the fairy tale that goes, "Uh, *have* noticed that 
the Emperor has no clothes on, right?" Asked to put up or shut up and actually 
*produce* a "certified TM enlightened person," the TMO wouldn't have been able 
to do so. 
 It's all a house of cards perpetuated by the fact that no one ever says, "Show 
me an enlightened person." 



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