yes, I think stepping back, and suspending judgement for a moment helps to see things in a proper perspective, or, as I've sometimes mentioned, seeing the "story" behind the story.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, steve.sundur wrote: > yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it. > We are all in a state of cognitive dissonance simply because the world is not exactly as it appears - we don't see and sense things as they really are. There is always a transformation as soon as perception takes place and our consciousness actually changes what the senses perceive. Also the fact that we are living in the past - we don't sense things as they are right now - when we sense anything, it has already changed - we never see ahead because the action in the future is yet to be performed. We live in the past - everything we consciously perceive is at least one-third of a second old. > I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about "helping the poor" and being "nice", will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, "if I can't have it, no one can". really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> mailto:fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : "'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one..." An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <anartaxius@...> mailto:anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> mailto:sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: "Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're "enlightened." There are other qualities that I value more. From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from "TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet," coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, "This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM." What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:
