From: "'Richard J. Williams' [FairfieldLife]" 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
     On 11/19/2014 10:45 AM, Share Long wrote:
     The nutshell about behavior and enlightenement is this: basically in the 
Gita, God is telling a man to kill, but to do so established in Being. If it's 
ok to kill established in Being, then logically any action would be ok if the 
doer is established in Being. 
 Actually it's much simpler than that, Share. We should all be established in 
Being no matter what we do, and then act. 
 The point of the Gita is that "you" or "I" do not actually do anything at all 
- it is the gunas born of nature that are acting on each other, that are doing 
the actions - based on your karma.
 All you have to do is get established in Being and do your duty. It's not 
  No wonder the CIA checked out the TMO! It's pretty revolutionary stuff if one 
gets the nitty gritty of it. Also there's a place in his Commentary where 
Maharishi explains that eventually one also has to become unattached to 
positivity. IMO, another great thought stopper! 
  On Kohlberg's moral reasoning scale, TMers scored in the more developed 
category, which is morality unlimited by traditional religious rules.
      From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:20 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
         I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 
'enlightenment'. The most  overreaching attempts include the entire universe as 
a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what 
enlightenment is about. If you  include everything you cannot define 
enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, 
simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z,  you have to include them 
all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the  blind 
man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the 
TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions 
on  behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment 
does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good 
 person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to 
act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far 
reduced from  the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen 
to Charles Manson (I saw  that picture online too), while he seems sort of 
crazy, he also often  expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the 
  Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of 
enlightenment  have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question 
one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why 
are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules 
inconsistent between religions regarding  behaviour). If you say god created 
the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like 
father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious  figures, gurus, etc., one 
cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially 
affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This  issue of behaviour is one 
which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to  
solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. 
  How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically 
damaged  bodies, emotionally damaged bodies,  in your wake? There does not seem 
to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as  unbounded, and acting in it 
in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause 
harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch  (sociopaths and 
psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are 
crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from  
your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There 
seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not 
seem to be  affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining 
  An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal  
translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). 
  Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know 
me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that 
there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other.  Former of 
light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, 
make all these. 
  Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed 
source of  creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar 
passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in 
existence and are  sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we 
come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those 
qualities that (some) people  abhor? 
  Light is the left hand of darkness  and darkness the right hand of light. Two 
are one, life and death, lying together like lovers in kemmer, like hands 
joined together, like the end and the way.
                   —Ursula K. Le Guin  
        From: "TurquoiseBee [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
        From: " [FairfieldLife]" 
        The Zen trained Adyashanti had  this to say about 'enlightenment  
   'When I looked around at the  Buddhist tradition, I realized that  the 
success rate was  terrible. People were in it for  enlightenment, but very few 
were actually getting enlightened.  If this were a business, I thought, we'd be 
   'I think it's unfortunate  that a person can spend hour after hour,  day 
after day, year after  year, dedicating his life to  enlightenment, and yet the 
 very notion that anybody attains  enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going 
after this; but God  forbid somebody says they've  realized it. We don't  
believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt;  we go immediately into a semi- (or 
overt) attack mode.  To me, it highlights the fact that  people are chasing an  
awakening they don't believe could happen  to them. 
  I've heard this rap from him before, and I  think he's being simplistic. For 
example, his model  doesn't work for me -- I've had  enlightenment experiences, 
 and the way I figure it, if I could have  them, *anybody* could. So the belief 
that "it can't  happen" is not in play. 
  Instead, when I object to someone's claim of being  enlightened, in almost  
every case it's because THEY ARE NOT  WALKING THEIR *OWN* TALK. That is, they 
are acting contrary to  their *own* definitions and  descriptions of what  
enlightenment is.
  That was the problem with Maharishi, it  was the problem with Rama-Fred Lenz, 
and it is *certainly*  the problem with low-level poseurs like  Jim Flanegin or 
Robin  Carlsen. All four of these people IMO  suffered from long-term  
narcissistic personality disorder all  their lives, and so when they had some 
*minor* experience of  boundlessness or witnessing, their own self-centeredness 
and narcissism  made them assume that they were "enlightened" and they began  
to claim it to other people. The "tell"  that none of them were, in  fact, 
enlightened is that when all  of them are called upon to  define what 
enlightenment is or what it  means, *their own thoughts,  words, and actions* 
don't fit their own  definitions. 
  It's like they define enlightenment as A, B, and C  but then act out X, Y, 
and  Z. They're so narcissistic that they  don't notice the discrepancy, and so 
they think no one  will else notice. 
  They're wrong. We notice. 
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