From: "'Richard J. Williams' [FairfieldLife]" 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
     On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, steve.sundur wrote:
    yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does 
have all the outer attributes we associate with it.  
 We are all in a state of cognitive dissonance simply because the world is not 
exactly as it appears - we don't see and sense things as they really are. 
 There is always a transformation as soon as perception takes place and our 
consciousness actually changes what the senses perceive. 
 Also the fact that we are living in the past - we don't sense things as they 
are right now - when we sense anything, it has already changed - we never see 
ahead because the action in the future is yet to be performed. 
 We live in the past - everything we consciously perceive is at least one-third 
of a second old. 
  I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working 
through, or in the discover phase of.
 ---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
 Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that 
came up - lol 
  seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened 
teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And 
the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing 
good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and 
mouthing platitudes about "helping the poor" and being "nice", will lead to our 
salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our 
freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is 
the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves.  
   ---In, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :
 that is funny Jim.  a very simple, yet relevant observation. 
  yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's 
conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. 
  maybe along the lines, "if I can't have it, no one can". 
  really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage 
of development. 
 ---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
 "'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after 
day, year after year,  dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very 
notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after 
this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We  don't believe them, 
we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack 
mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they 
don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one..." 
  An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town 
in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into 
his temperament.
  This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even 
likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not 
just by saintly folks, but by ordinary  schlubs, like me!  
 ---In, <anartaxius@...> wrote :
 The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment  success': 
   'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that  the 
success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few 
were actually getting enlightened. If this were a  business, I thought, we'd be 
  'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour,  day after 
day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very 
notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a  taboo. We're all going after 
this; but God forbid somebody says they've  realized it. We don't believe them, 
we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack 
mode. To me,  it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they 
don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest  one... 
And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening 
loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not  just special people 
who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' 
  The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something  nobody seems 
to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads 
about what enlightenment is supposed to  be. The usual ideas about what 
enlightenment is, are something out of a comic  book, something fantastical. 
Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so 
familiar that you discount it  entirely. 
 ---In, <sharelong60@...> wrote :
  MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to 
fulfill my desires.
      From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
       And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the  1980's 
enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and 
over. Till it became obvious that no one was  getting enlightened even with the 
10,000 times more powerful  than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace.
        From: "Share Long sharelong60@... 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
       First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim  people 
enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, 
I know of a group who gives  certificates of enlightenment.  Maybe they use 
different criteria than me! I also know people in  the TMO who I think are 
pretty darn enlightened. But of course  they don't proclaim themselves as such. 
  The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the  posturing 
and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it  doesn't matter to me 
whether or not they're "enlightened." There are other  qualities that I value 
        From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... 
 To: "" <> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
       From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]"
   On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
    From: "Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]" 
  On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:     
     It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always  
gotten a chuckle from "TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet," 
coming from an organization  that in over 50 years has been unable to produce 
even a single person they can point at and say, "This person is enlightened,  
and got that way as a result of practicing TM."
  What organization does? 
  Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to  
accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment,  compared to almost 
anything else being sold on this planet: 
  -- "So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75,  
and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years."  (Please 
note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) 
  --"Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me  the future, I 
can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but 
tens of thousands of  dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra 
courses  and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince 
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will  actually occur, and 
that if it does, it's worth it? 
  -- "Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8  
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the 
lectures -- when you're enlightened,  you'll be able to know everything and 
have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of  
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?" 
  --"It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to  me that this 
'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For  example, there are many 
people here in the room today who have  been practicing TM for more than 8 
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out 
the  ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure  out if this 
is all going to be worth it." 
  -- "Sorry. <insert reverential tone of bullshit here> 'We don't talk about 
our individual state ofconsciousness.'" 
  --"WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all  this 
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show  me anyone who you can 
guarantee has achieved it?" 
  -- "That's right." 
  --"You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path'  to 
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?" 
  -- "You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought  this 
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker."  
 It's a "path to enlightenment" but my point was that no organization  I know 
of guarantees it.  You can't.  It even goes against TM teaching because one's 
progress is  dependent on the state of their nervous system.  And by no means 
would it be the fastest.  It really is just a meditation for the masses.  It's 
nothing special other than it was probably better  organized than some of the 
other front runners. 
  Bhairitu, it's not "guaranteeing enlightenment" that I'm riffing on for 
hopefully humorous purposes. It's  the promising it for 50 years and never 
*producing* it I'm riffing  on.  
  That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too 
stupid to ever say, "Now  wait a minute...where are all these enlightened 
people you promised me  I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to 
me. Show me  an enlightened person." 
      Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the 
counterpart of the line in the fairy tale  that goes, "Uh, *have* 
noticed that the Emperor has no  clothes on, right?" Asked to put up or shut up 
and actually  *produce* a "certified TM enlightened person," the TMO wouldn't 
have been able to do so. 
  It's all a house of cards perpetuated by the fact that no one ever says, 
"Show me an enlightened person." 
  #yiv0918305927 #yiv0918305927 -- #yiv0918305927ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid 
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