On 11/22/2014 02:51 PM, Tormod Kinnes tkin...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Dear Bhairatu

You write of your background for saying "TM is nothing but . . .". Good. But I cannot help noting that you still don't give real examples to document your stand.

Why would I want to take the the time with you? I'm just suggesting some things to look into so you can start a journey of true knowledge.

For example, you write:

    "I also like to refer to Sivananda's "Mind Its Mysteries and
    Control"  . . . to point out the method of meditation TM uses with
    the mantras is nothing new either as that work was first published
    in 1936."

I took the trouble to search through Sivananda's book, but if it contains anything specific about the TM system, I missed it. The Smartist mantras and the main criteria for selecting from among them are not specified there, not as far as I could see after a quick search. Nor are Guru Dev's warning that OM (which is often found in Sivananda's writings) is not a proper mantra for householders.

Read the section on meditation. You are going to need more than superficial abilities to understand mantra shastra.

You write

"mantras were published in the west before Maharishi".

Yes, but a mass of syllables is not the TM system either. Many sounds and words of the language - Long, Fine, and so on - may in fact be used as mantras.

Have you even studied Sanskrit?

Then you suggest something about seed sounds:

"TM uses beej mantras because they don't need any empowerment."

You also say that the TM initiation ceremony helps, and that other ways may help too.

Do you know what shaktipat is?

    "The puja helps but Indian astrologers and ayurvedic practitioners
    hand them out to clients without any elaborate initiation."

In Guru Dev's discourses one finds a similar view in choosing the mantras. One gets a suitable mantra either by the guru or in some other way. Paul Mason has gathered, translated and published several books with ideas of Guru Dev.

    "where the beej mantras came from . . lost in antiquity and
undoubtedly commonly in use even at the time of Shankara."

This seems to be speculation.

The opinion of many scholars not just mine.

"TM is really just "yoga lite". -

I should say your proofs are lite too. Good, specific documentation is the thing called for.

Then you don't know what is meant by "yoga lite". You probably don't even know the real meaning of yoga.


There are some sources outside TM, sources that reveal the settings and transmission to Maharishi when he was trained by Guru Dev, benefited by his company, and was asked to bring swift and deep meditation to the masses.

Elsa Dragemark presents Dr. Raj Varma:

     "Doctor Varma came to Guru Dev six months before Maharishi and
    knows more about Guru Dev and Maharishi than any other person I
    have met. [p. 240]

Dr. Raj Varma tells (in Elsa Dragemark. The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas. Stockholm: E. Dragemark, 1972):


    Maharishi loyally followed in his master's footsteps. . . .
    Maharishi stayed with Guru Dev until the day his master left his
    body. It was in Calcutta, the 20th of May, 1953.
    Guru Dev then called Maharishi and asked him to sit down. Guru Dev
    — My time is up. It is time to leave, but still one thing remains.
    There was something else I should have done, but I did not have
    the time to carry it out. It is the usual custom that the work
    remaining for a guru is completed by his disciples. It is a
    tradition that the father's task is completed by his son and what
    now remains you shall complete by yourself.
    — Master, Maharishi said, by your lotus feet, what remains? Your
    wish is my command. What do you wish, tell me, so that I can
    fulfil it. Guru Dev said:
    — Look around. Many people are dejected. There is a lack of energy
    in their minds. Their minds are not strong enough. What I {p. 261]
    have taught you also contains the knowledge of the technique for
    the householder, which has been misinterpreted and forgotten
    during the centuries. This should now be perfected into a simple
    method suitable for everyone. Ask the people to sit and meditate
    after this method a few moments every morning and evening. Teach
    them to enjoy life. . . .


Accordingly, basic TM is meant to be a well simplified and streamlined mantra meditation for others than monks. It is mantra meditation, yes, but there is a system beneath also (it seems to be Smartism), and Guru Dev's teaching that OM is to be avoided among householders, but not necessarily by monks and nuns.

Thus, there are mantras you won't find in TM. I should say it is specialised mantra lore, with some elements in common with other mantra teachings, as you suggest, but with a few decisive characteristics of its own too.

If other mantra methods eventually come up with research documentation that is as good as the better TM documentation,
I won't say TM stands out a lot.

Till then . . .

T. Kinnes

You know, I'm not the only one here who has experience outside the realm of TM. Rick has also interviewed a number of people who have gone beyond TM. Perhaps you should go watch some of those interviews. Try getting out of the TM true believer box for a change. It makes you sound arrogant and yogis would just laugh at you.

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