Think of all the progress they could have made, all the stress dissolved, if 
they had simply done TM every time they felt like insulting me. Mind boggling. 
What was accomplished by insulting me? More wasted time, and that is all. Life 
goes on, and nobody is getting any younger. Instead of becoming diamond 
merchants, they are all spinach salesmen, hugging The Waking State, as if it 
were solid gold. Simply pathetic.

---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 Rather crazy to have the spiritual neophytes like Barry, MJ and Taxesus, 
trying to verify enlightenment, from the waking state. Not even close to being 
possible. Better they get off their lazy butts, and achieve it themselves. Then 
they will have an opinion worth listening to. Can't stand people that are too 
lazy to do it themselves, but bitch about others' accomplishments - What a 
waste of time, and life. Jai Guru Dev.

---In, <> wrote :

 Whereas the Movement never would "out" an enlightened individual, there are 
many souls popping these days. How do you verify another persons enlightenment 
? You don't because you can't. Maharishi was asked this question and he 
answered that the person have to be enlightened himself to recognize 
enlightenment in the other. So all the beginners here at FFL; don't even try.
 "It is said that Lord Buddha brought 500 people to enlightenment. I think we 
will do better"
 His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

---In, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :


---In, <> wrote :

 Press conference to proclaim someone Enlightened ? What a joke. The TMO, 
thankfully, has more dignity than the Turq can ever imagine. They would never 
ever engage in such circus-activities as this troubled poster suggest. 

 Although I didn't read most of what our esteemed colleague wrote below (I 
caught the gist) I had the same thought as Nabby. It is not the job or the 
business of the TMO to go around hanging signs around people's necks in order 
to verify their enlightenment. If there is such a thing then perhaps only one's 
spiritual teacher (if one had one at all) could possibly verify the state of 
his "student's" state of consciousness. And whose business is that anyway? 
Putting labels on people and dressing them up as poster people for the Movement 
because of their supposed state would be absurd and as far as I'm concerned it 
is a credit to them that they refrain from this. As Nabby said, "What a joke."

---In, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 It seems to me that this issue can be easily resolved. 


 If, in fact, the person Nabby is speaking about has attained enlightenment as 
the result of practicing the TM technique (and/or the TMSP), then one would 
think that the TM organization should want to be the first to proclaim the 
truth of this and inform the world of his momentous achievement. They should 
schedule a press conference and announce it to the whole world. 


 However, this organization, while giving lectures for over 50 years now that 
proclaim loudly that they are selling "the fastest path to enlightenment on the 
planet," has NEVER given a press conference and pointed to a single individual 
and said, "This is an example of what we are selling. This person is 
enlightened, and they got that way by practicing the techniques we sell." So 
it's not exactly likely that they're going to hold such a press conference now. 


 Just think about that 50+-year "track record," and how often the TMO has 
produced someone enlightened. 






 The TM organization likes to talk about the "millions" of people who have 
learned TM. But somehow, *over the course of 50 years*, that same TM 
organization has NEVER produced *a single person* who it can point to publicly 
and say that this person has actually succeeded in attaining enlightenment by 
practicing the "fastest path to it." 








 So I don't think we should hold our breath waiting for Bevan Morris or John 
Hagelin or "King" Tony Nader to come rushing in to support the person Nabby is 
speaking about and "certify" or "authorize" his supposed enlightenment. Not 
gonna happen. 


 Therefore his claim is -- and shall remain -- just that, a claim. 


 Furthermore, it's a claim that NO ONE believes. But that's NOT because of any 
generalized "anger and resentment" about the concept of enlightenment itself, 
or an equally generalized lack of belief that anyone, anywhere can attain it. 


 And I can prove it. 


 All you have to do is compare the person Nabby is talking about to, say, 
Adyashanti, a person who *also* claims to be enlightened. LOTS of people seem 
to believe Adyashanti. He's got a whole *movement* full of people who follow 
him and buy his books and attend meetings with him because they believe he is 


 So clearly the person Nabby is talking about on this forum does not have the 
same level of believability as Adyashanti. Heck, he doesn't have the same level 
of believability as Bill Cosby. 


 So can you say, "Nice straw man argument, Nabby?" I think you can.  


 Better luck next time...   :-)




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