You possibly know this, but the maya like dream state, and waking state, are 
actually the same thing. All the elements we enjoy in reality are there, but 
like in a dream, it doesn't quite make sense. For a realistic view of life, 
enlightenment is *necessary* - not just some obscure notion, from the East - 
lol. That is why enlightenment is often called, "Awakening". A little grandiose 
for my taste, but accurate. 
---In, <punditster@...> wrote :

 On 11/24/2014 4:52 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote:
   God I know, what a ludicrous suggestion. Barry thinks the enlightened people 
want to be proclaimed and shown off.

 If what Barry says is accurate, that's what Rama used to do - show off. The 
funny thing is that Barry can't fly or levitate, and obviously he is 
unenlightened - the only show he puts on is on social media. I mean, even if 
Rama could levitate, what does that prove? 
 Maybe it's easy to impress Barry with stage-show tricks - he does seem to be 
prone to suggestibility. 
 But, are you really sure Barry is in a "waking state" - it seems more and more 
like he is in a maya-like dream state. Who would hang around a place for ten 
months waiting for good weather just to take a snap shot of the sky? Go figure.
 Nothing further from the truth. They are already rewarded beyond measure, 
needing nothing more than what naturally gravitates to them. There is no need 
for anything, adulation included. They are who they are, and that is pay back 
enough. Waking state people like Barry, are the ones who dream of being lauded 
and famous. But that is simply because a person in waking state is needy, and 
this feeling is transferred to the enlightened person, who is never needy. 

<> wrote :
 Press conference to proclaim someone Enlightened ? What a joke. The TMO, 
thankfully, has more dignity than the Turq can ever imagine. They would never 
ever engage in such circus-activities as this troubled poster suggest. 
<turquoiseb@...> mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote :
 It seems to me that this issue can be easily resolved. 
 If, in fact, the person Nabby is speaking about has attained enlightenment as 
the result of practicing the TM technique (and/or the TMSP), then one would 
think that the TM organization should want to be the first to proclaim the 
truth of this and inform the world of his momentous achievement. They should 
schedule a press conference and announce it to the whole world. 
 However, this organization, while giving lectures for over 50 years now that 
proclaim loudly that they are selling "the fastest path to enlightenment on the 
planet," has NEVER given a press conference and pointed to a single individual 
and said, "This is an example of what we are selling. This person is 
enlightened, and they got that way by practicing the techniques we sell." So 
it's not exactly likely that they're going to hold such a press conference now. 

 Just think about that 50+-year "track record," and how often the TMO has 
produced someone enlightened. 
 The TM organization likes to talk about the "millions" of people who have 
learned TM. But somehow, *over the course of 50 years*, that same TM 
organization has NEVER produced *a single person* who it can point to publicly 
and say that this person has actually succeeded in attaining enlightenment by 
practicing the "fastest path to it." 
 So I don't think we should hold our breath waiting for Bevan Morris or John 
Hagelin or "King" Tony Nader to come rushing in to support the person Nabby is 
speaking about and "certify" or "authorize" his supposed enlightenment. Not 
gonna happen. 
 Therefore his claim is -- and shall remain -- just that, a claim. 
 Furthermore, it's a claim that NO ONE believes. But that's NOT because of any 
generalized "anger and resentment" about the concept of enlightenment itself, 
or an equally generalized lack of belief that anyone, anywhere can attain it. 

 And I can prove it. 
 All you have to do is compare the person Nabby is talking about to, say, 
Adyashanti, a person who *also* claims to be enlightened. LOTS of people seem 
to believe Adyashanti. He's got a whole *movement* full of people who follow 
him and buy his books and attend meetings with him because they believe he is 
 So clearly the person Nabby is talking about on this forum does not have the 
same level of believability as Adyashanti. Heck, he doesn't have the same level 
of believability as Bill Cosby. 
 So can you say, "Nice straw man argument, Nabby?" I think you can.  
 Better luck next time...   :-)
 From: nablusoss1008 <>
 Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new definition of "Do less but accomplish 
   "I have, and am enlightened. Haven't you been reading what I write?"
 This is for obvious reasons the most provocative claim ever posted on FFL.  
Though many start TM to have better sleep and improve health the majority of 
young people including the posters here who tried TM, the idea that 
enlightenment was easily available to anyone so convincingly put forward by 
Maharishi was the main reason to start TM. When due to lack of perserverance 
and self-control they failed they blame the teacher rather than analyzing their 
own shortcomings. The anger and resentment bordering on hate Fleetwood meets 
here is the same Adyashanti describes in Buddhist circles where anyone claiming 
to living the goal is labeled a fraud. The Buddha made 500 souls enlightened 
yet Buddhists today seems incapable of seeing that this is not only old stories 
but a reality also today.
 A friend of mine who goes for prolonged stays in Fairfield every year to do 
Programme in the dome reports that Fleetwood is far from the only person living 
the natural state of enlightenment. Quite the contrary, the experiences of 
higher states of consciousness in daily life is getting stronger and stronger 
every year. But to the consternation of loosers like the Turq or MJ, the 
Movement will never point the finger at an Enlightened parading him like in a 
Circus and say; look here, he is enlightened, see what TM can do. This will 
never happen.
 For this reason, anyone living in freedom like Fleetwood who is willing to 
share his experiences is doing everyone a great favor and we should be thankful 
that he is willing to spend some of his time here.
 "The future of mankind is bright, and that is our delight"



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