---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 Yes, it is a curious coincidence that sooner,or later anyone who disagrees 
with Barry is labeled a "cult apologist", or as being "obsessed" with him. 

 He holds himself up as some sort of uber cool hipster.

 But, I think his fan club really consists of two other people.

 That link (non clicking) you provided earlier, is pretty damned interesting.

 Wasn't it? I found it fascinating that their meetings are held at an 'English 
style pub' for some reason. You'd think while in Holland they might enjoy a 
Dutch pub. Dare I say, "go figure"?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 You have a very telling habit, Barry. Every time you get your butt seriously 
kicked, the other person automatically becomes "crazy". Enjoy those boot prints 
on your buttocks, big boy.  

 You have insulted, demeaned, distorted and slandered so many people on here, 
due to your hubris, sadistic tendencies, and ignorance. I am enjoying the 
payback, as are many others. You are an asshole, who has insisted on my 
attention, so enjoy it, while you've got it.  :-) :-) :-)

 Or you could just start TM, and transform into a much nicer, more socially and 
financially responsible person. But you won't - you seem to enjoy putting your 
brokenness on display, and I'll gladly continue to play the spotlight on your 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 Well said, especially:

 I've yet to see any evidence that so-called enlightenment via TM is anything 
other than a personality disorder or even mental illness. Or at least an 
imbalance of some sort in the way the brain usually balances ego and other 
hormonal functions.

 That's really it, the bottom line for me, too. From December of 1967 (when I 
started TM) to the present, *I have not met a single TMer* who I would consider 
enlightened, using traditional definitions of that term. Those TMers who have 
claimed to be enlightened have IMO *all* fallen into the categories you name 
above -- personality disordered, mentally ill, or imbalanced. 

 I am *not* saying this to be "mean," or to "diss TM." I'm saying it because 
it's true. I really *haven't* met even a single person who practiced TM whom I 
would suspect of being enlightened. Not even one. 

 Just to make the distinction clear, I *have* met people from other spiritual 
traditions who I have suspected were enlightened. I don't know for sure, of 
course, and never will, but at least there was a *possibility* with these 
individuals that I was talking with someone enlightened, rather than someone 
personality disordered, mentally ill, or imbalanced. With anyone who had spent 
any time in the TM movement, it was impossible for me to entertain that 

 I have to believe, therefore -- based on my personal experience -- that TM not 
only does *not* produce enlightenment as it has been traditionally defined for 
centuries, it produces its opposite: personality disorder, mental illness, and 
systemic imbalance. 


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 Yes, this is what angers and frustrates those in the waking state. They are 
ego bound, and yet feel stupid and inadequate, in the presence of someone 
enlightened. You can watch the results as we speak. Quite a show, and a 
huuuuuge waste of time for these beginners, who, had they ANY sense at all, 
would be doing TM, instead of trying to see how many angels can dance on the 
head of a pin. Not that I mind. :-)

 When I was a newbie meditator I had this hunger for enlightenment, I'd had the 
experiences of CC up to unity many times and thought it must be an enviable 
state to be in all the time.

 After quitting my job and moving in to an academy I started to notice that 
people who had been doing TM for decades were for the most part, erm, highly 
eccentric, occasionally aggressive and generally rather odd. At first I put it 
down to the fact that they'd either not done enough TM or maybe too much .

 I did meet the occasionally evolved person which seemed to make it all 
worthwhile. You know the type, they carry a bit of dignity and have no obvious 
hang-ups or emotional blocks or ego problems. Clear minded people that act 
lively and always seem well adjusted. I think it was Maslow who had studied 
people who he described as self-realised and the description fits well. But 
then his description included open-minded inquiry and TMer's tend to have a 
True Believer devotee attribute.

 So I came to the conclusion - perhaps unfairly - that they must have been that 
personally quite evolved or halfway there to start with. I've yet to see any 
evidence that so-called enlightenment via TM is anything other than a 
personality disorder or even mental illness. Or at least an imbalance of some 
sort in the way the brain usually balances ego and other hormonal functions.

 The big question is: Is it worth crossing the street for? I've yet to see or 
hear anything from the TMO that makes me want to do TM with enlightenment as 
the goal, let alone sit around in a dome for hours every day. So I guess not, 
we will all answer the question differently I suppose and be happy with the 
answer we give ourselves.


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