All the stories about the Trolls are age-old oral traditions. Funny thing is 
that when these stories were collected and written down in the 1800's they were 
coherent and often identical even between remote villages in different parts of 
Scandinavia and Iceland. 
 I had an Icelandic friend who was rather bright who said he often saw and 
communicated with Trolls who he claimed were not benign but rather dense and 
could be easily tricked into doing things he wanted them to do. 

 But communication was always restricted to after sunset or before sunrise :-)

 As wiki points out there are huge numbers of these Creatures but all being 
biggish, dim-witted and potentially dangerous.

 "In Norse mythology, troll, like thurs, is a term applied to jötnar, and are mentioned throughout the Old 
Norse corpus. In Old Norse sources, trolls are said to dwell in isolated 
mountains, rocks, and caves, sometimes live together (usually as 
father-and-daughter or mother-and-son), and are rarely described as helpful or 
friendly.[1] In 
the Prose Edda book Skáldskaparmál, a scenario describing an 
encounter between an unnamed troll woman and the 9th century skald Bragi Boddason is provided. According to the 
section, once, late in the evening, Bragi was driving through "a certain 
forest" when a troll woman aggressively asked him who he was, in the process 
describing herself: 
 Bragi responds in turn, describing himself and his abilities as a skillful 
skald, before the scenario ends.[3]
 There is much confusion and overlap in the use of Old Norse terms jötunn, 
troll, þurs and risi, which describe various beings. Lotte Motz theorized that these were originally 
four distinct classes of beings; lords of nature (jötunn), mythical magicians 
(troll), hostile monsters (þurs) and heroic and courtly beings (risi)—the last 
class being the youngest addition. Ármann Jakobsson calls this theory 
"unsupported by any convincing evidence".[4] He has gone on to 
study the Old Norse examples of the term troll and has concluded that in the 
Middle Ages, the term is used to denote various beings such as a giant or 
mountain-dweller, a witch, an abnormally strong or large or ugly person, an 
evil spirit, a ghost, a blámaðr, a 
magical boar, a heathen demi-god, a demon, a brunnmigi or a berserk[5][clarification needed]
 Scandinavian folklore Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined 
as a particular type of being.[6] Numerous tales about 
trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely 
old, very strong, but slow and dim-witted, and are at times described as 
man-eaters and as turning to stone upon contact with sunlight.[7] 
However, trolls are also attested as looking much the same as human beings, 
without any particularly hideous appearance about them, but where they differ 
is in that they live far away from human habitation, and, unlike the rå and 
näck—who are attested as "solitary beings", trolls generally have "some form of 
social organization". Where they differ, Lindow adds, is that they are not 
Christian, and those that encounter them do not know them. Therefore trolls 
were in the end dangerous, regardless of how well they may get along with 
Christian society, and trolls display a habit of bergtagning ('kidnapping'; 
literally "mountain-taking") and overrunning a farm or estate.[8]
 While noting that the etymology of the word "troll" remains uncertain, John 
Lindow defines trolls in later Swedish folklore as "nature beings" and as 
"all-purpose otherworldly being[s], equivalent, for example, to fairies in Anglo traditions" and that they "therefore appear 
in various migratory legends
 where collective nature-beings are called for". Lindow notes that trolls are 
sometimes swapped out for cats and "little people" in the folklore record.[8]
 A Scandinavian folk belief that lightning frightens away trolls and jötnar appears 
in numerous Scandinavian folktales, and may be a late reflection of the god 
Thor's role in fighting such beings. In 
connection, the lack of trolls and jötnar in modern Scandinavia is sometimes 
explained as a result of the "accuracy and efficiency of the lightning 
Additionally, the absence of trolls in regions of Scandinavia are described in 
folklore as being a "consequence of the constant din of the church-bells". This 
ring caused the trolls to leave for other lands, although not without some 
resistance; numerous traditions relate how trolls destroyed a church under 
construction or lunged boulders and stones at completed churches. Large local 
stones are sometimes described as the product of a troll's toss.[10] 
Additionally, into the 20th century, the origins of particular Scandinavian 
landmarks, such as particular stones, are ascribed to trolls who may, for 
example, have turned to stone upon exposure to sunlight.[7]
 Lindow compares the trolls of the Swedish folk tradition to supernatural mead 
hall invader Grendel in the Old English poem Beowulf, and notes that "just as the poem Beowulf 
emphasizes not the harrying of Grendel but the cleansing of the hall of 
Beowulf, so the modern tales stress the moment when the trolls are driven 
 Smaller trolls are attested as living in burial mounds and in mountains in 
Scandinavian folk tradition.[11] In Denmark, these creatures are recorded as troldfolk 
("troll-folk"), bjergtrolde ("mountain-trolls"), or bjergfolk ("mountain-folk") 
and in Norway also as troldfolk ("troll-folk") and tusser.[11] Trolls may be 
described as small, human-like beings or as tall as men depending on the region 
of origin of the story.[12] James MacCulloch 
theorizes a connection between the Old Norse vættir and trolls, theorizing that both 
concepts may either stem from (or ultimately derive from) spirits of the 
 In Norwegian tradition, similar tales may be told about the larger trolls and 
the Huldrefolk ("hidden-folk") yet a 
distinction is made between the two. The use of the word trow in Orkney and Shetland, to mean 
beings which are very like the Huldrefolk in Norway may suggest a common origin 
for the terms. The word troll may have been used by pagan Norse settlers in 
Orkney and Shetland as a collective term for supernatural beings who should be 
respected and avoided rather than worshiped. Troll could later have become 
specialized as a description of the larger, more menacing Jötunn-kind whereas 
Huldrefolk may have developed as the general term applied to smaller 


---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 Great analogy! I wonder where the Norsemen got the myth from??

---In, <> wrote :

 Like the Trolls in Norse mythology who crack up if exposed to direct sunlight 
the Turq have been exposed to more light than he expected. He is probably busy 
cleaning up his harddisks as we speak.

---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 LOL - Looks like I really stepped in the dressing! Yes, the football and 
feasting. I will do my best to eat and drink too much today!  

 As for Barry, like I said, there isn't a hole deep enough for him right now, 
so the best course, for him, is to get some help, and remove himself until he 
does, without any prodding, official or otherwise. This place was never meant 
to be his toilet, and if it takes the Dutch cops asking him a lot of 
uncomfortable questions, to get him out of here, and to seriously clean up his 
act, so be it. 

 ---In, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :


---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 I keep forgetting about this black friday thing, here. Jesus. At least it is, 
technically, *after* Turkey Day, and so, the Xmas Season kickoff...  

 I like Canada a lot - As much as I love the US tribe, Canada is always a 
kinder and gentler example, to me, of how to act as a country, though their 
much smaller population makes it all a bit easier to manage, too. I cannot 
recall ever having met a Canadian, who was not friendly, giving, personable, 
and trustworthy. I worked with several, for years, in various tech companies. 
Have only visited Ottowa, though - Loved It - Instant Europe. I don't know 
where it comes from, but my daughter is a big hockey fan - not quite religion, 
but it is her 'go to' game. 

 Happy Thanksgiving, if yours is on the same day...or just good morning!

 Good morning, sir. No, Canadian Thanksgiving is always the first Monday in 
October. So today we just watch the Americans eat their way to lethargy and 
play their football and get ready to descend on the stores tomorrow in a 
shopping panic. One thing that has happened up here is that in an effort to 
reap some of the marketing benefits of Black Friday in America, Canada has also 
started their own Black Friday. I hate it.

 BTW, really good post about Barry and his sick postings here. I really, really 
wish he could either leave us alone or at least go get help. Maybe getting 
arrested would be a wakeup call, I don't know. But his toxicity here is beyond 

---In, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :


---In, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :

 I mentioned about Thanksgiving, being a less commercial holiday than our 
others, and am curious if a similar holiday exists in the other countries 
represented here? In other words, one not tied to religion or patriotism, or a 
great person, but simply to give thanks for what we have.

 Canadian thanksgiving is pretty much the same but we don't have the big 
shopping thing the day after. Canadians tend to be a bit more understated than 
Americans in most things they do on a large scale - oh, except for the hockey 
thing. That is religion here and considered their own invention although I 
think some arguments exist that Holland invented the first hockey sticks and 
the idea of hitting objects around a frozen surface.

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