Fascinating - I recall them from the children's stories I heard as a child. Must be some truth to all of it, given the coherence of the stories.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : All the stories about the Trolls are age-old oral traditions. Funny thing is that when these stories were collected and written down in the 1800's they were coherent and often identical even between remote villages in different parts of Scandinavia and Iceland. I had an Icelandic friend who was rather bright who said he often saw and communicated with Trolls who he claimed were not benign but rather dense and could be easily tricked into doing things he wanted them to do. But communication was always restricted to after sunset or before sunrise :-) As wiki points out there are huge numbers of these Creatures but all being biggish, dim-witted and potentially dangerous. "In Norse mythology, troll, like thurs, is a term applied to jötnar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tnar, and are mentioned throughout the Old Norse corpus. In Old Norse sources, trolls are said to dwell in isolated mountains, rocks, and caves, sometimes live together (usually as father-and-daughter or mother-and-son), and are rarely described as helpful or friendly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-ORCHARD1997167-1 In the Prose Edda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose_Edda book Skáldskaparmál http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%A1ldskaparm%C3%A1l, a scenario describing an encounter between an unnamed troll woman and the 9th century skald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald Bragi Boddason http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragi_Boddason is provided. According to the section, once, late in the evening, Bragi was driving through "a certain forest" when a troll woman aggressively asked him who he was, in the process describing herself: Bragi responds in turn, describing himself and his abilities as a skillful skald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald, before the scenario ends. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-FAULKES-132-3 There is much confusion and overlap in the use of Old Norse terms jötunn, troll, þurs and risi, which describe various beings. Lotte Motz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotte_Motz theorized that these were originally four distinct classes of beings; lords of nature (jötunn), mythical magicians (troll), hostile monsters (þurs) and heroic and courtly beings (risi)—the last class being the youngest addition. Ármann Jakobsson calls this theory "unsupported by any convincing evidence". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-JAKOBSSON06-4 He has gone on to study the Old Norse examples of the term troll and has concluded that in the Middle Ages, the term is used to denote various beings such as a giant or mountain-dweller, a witch, an abnormally strong or large or ugly person, an evil spirit, a ghost, a blámaðr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people, a magical boar, a heathen demi-god, a demon, a brunnmigi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunnmigi or a berserk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-JAKOBSSON08-5[clarification needed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_clarify] Scandinavian folklore Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined as a particular type of being. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-SIMEK335-6 Numerous tales about trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely old, very strong, but slow and dim-witted, and are at times described as man-eaters and as turning to stone upon contact with sunlight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-KVEDELAND-SEHMSDORF-301-313-7 However, trolls are also attested as looking much the same as human beings, without any particularly hideous appearance about them, but where they differ is in that they live far away from human habitation, and, unlike the rå and näck—who are attested as "solitary beings", trolls generally have "some form of social organization". Where they differ, Lindow adds, is that they are not Christian, and those that encounter them do not know them. Therefore trolls were in the end dangerous, regardless of how well they may get along with Christian society, and trolls display a habit of bergtagning ('kidnapping'; literally "mountain-taking") and overrunning a farm or estate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-LINDOW-1978-33-35-8 While noting that the etymology of the word "troll" remains uncertain, John Lindow defines trolls in later Swedish folklore as "nature beings" and as "all-purpose otherworldly being[s], equivalent, for example, to fairies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy in Anglo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-saxons-Celtic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts traditions" and that they "therefore appear in various migratory legends http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Migratory_legend&action=edit&redlink=1 where collective nature-beings are called for". Lindow notes that trolls are sometimes swapped out for cats and "little people" in the folklore record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-LINDOW-1978-33-35-8 A Scandinavian folk belief that lightning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning frightens away trolls and jötnar appears in numerous Scandinavian folktales, and may be a late reflection of the god Thor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor's role in fighting such beings. In connection, the lack of trolls and jötnar in modern Scandinavia is sometimes explained as a result of the "accuracy and efficiency of the lightning strokes". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-LIGHTNING-9 Additionally, the absence of trolls in regions of Scandinavia are described in folklore as being a "consequence of the constant din of the church-bells". This ring caused the trolls to leave for other lands, although not without some resistance; numerous traditions relate how trolls destroyed a church under construction or lunged boulders and stones at completed churches. Large local stones are sometimes described as the product of a troll's toss. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-THORPE-1851-158-154-156-10 Additionally, into the 20th century, the origins of particular Scandinavian landmarks, such as particular stones, are ascribed to trolls who may, for example, have turned to stone upon exposure to sunlight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-KVEDELAND-SEHMSDORF-301-313-7 Lindow compares the trolls of the Swedish folk tradition to supernatural mead hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_hall invader Grendel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel in the Old English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English poem Beowulf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf, and notes that "just as the poem Beowulf emphasizes not the harrying of Grendel but the cleansing of the hall of Beowulf, so the modern tales stress the moment when the trolls are driven off." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-LINDOW-1978-33-35-8 Smaller trolls are attested as living in burial mounds and in mountains in Scandinavian folk tradition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-MACCULLOCH33-11 In Denmark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark, these creatures are recorded as troldfolk ("troll-folk"), bjergtrolde ("mountain-trolls"), or bjergfolk ("mountain-folk") and in Norway also as troldfolk ("troll-folk") and tusser. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-MACCULLOCH33-11 Trolls may be described as small, human-like beings or as tall as men depending on the region of origin of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-MACCULLOCH34-12 James MacCulloch theorizes a connection between the Old Norse vættir http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A6ttir and trolls, theorizing that both concepts may either stem from (or ultimately derive from) spirits of the dead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-MACCULLOCH30-13 In Norwegian tradition, similar tales may be told about the larger trolls and the Huldrefolk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huldrefolk ("hidden-folk") yet a distinction is made between the two. The use of the word trow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trow_(folklore) in Orkney and Shetland, to mean beings which are very like the Huldrefolk in Norway may suggest a common origin for the terms. The word troll may have been used by pagan Norse settlers in Orkney and Shetland as a collective term for supernatural beings who should be respected and avoided rather than worshiped. Troll could later have become specialized as a description of the larger, more menacing Jötunn-kind whereas Huldrefolk may have developed as the general term applied to smaller trolls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#cite_note-Narv.C3.A1ez2-14 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : Great analogy! I wonder where the Norsemen got the myth from?? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : Like the Trolls in Norse mythology who crack up if exposed to direct sunlight the Turq have been exposed to more light than he expected. He is probably busy cleaning up his harddisks as we speak. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : LOL - Looks like I really stepped in the dressing! Yes, the football and feasting. I will do my best to eat and drink too much today! As for Barry, like I said, there isn't a hole deep enough for him right now, so the best course, for him, is to get some help, and remove himself until he does, without any prodding, official or otherwise. This place was never meant to be his toilet, and if it takes the Dutch cops asking him a lot of uncomfortable questions, to get him out of here, and to seriously clean up his act, so be it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : I keep forgetting about this black friday thing, here. Jesus. At least it is, technically, *after* Turkey Day, and so, the Xmas Season kickoff... I like Canada a lot - As much as I love the US tribe, Canada is always a kinder and gentler example, to me, of how to act as a country, though their much smaller population makes it all a bit easier to manage, too. I cannot recall ever having met a Canadian, who was not friendly, giving, personable, and trustworthy. I worked with several, for years, in various tech companies. Have only visited Ottowa, though - Loved It - Instant Europe. I don't know where it comes from, but my daughter is a big hockey fan - not quite religion, but it is her 'go to' game. Happy Thanksgiving, if yours is on the same day...or just good morning! Good morning, sir. No, Canadian Thanksgiving is always the first Monday in October. So today we just watch the Americans eat their way to lethargy and play their football and get ready to descend on the stores tomorrow in a shopping panic. One thing that has happened up here is that in an effort to reap some of the marketing benefits of Black Friday in America, Canada has also started their own Black Friday. I hate it. BTW, really good post about Barry and his sick postings here. I really, really wish he could either leave us alone or at least go get help. Maybe getting arrested would be a wakeup call, I don't know. But his toxicity here is beyond belief. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : I mentioned about Thanksgiving, being a less commercial holiday than our others, and am curious if a similar holiday exists in the other countries represented here? In other words, one not tied to religion or patriotism, or a great person, but simply to give thanks for what we have. Canadian thanksgiving is pretty much the same but we don't have the big shopping thing the day after. Canadians tend to be a bit more understated than Americans in most things they do on a large scale - oh, except for the hockey thing. That is religion here and considered their own invention although I think some arguments exist that Holland invented the first hockey sticks and the idea of hitting objects around a frozen surface.