Re "Religions are dying out in the age of psychology as they are no longer needed.":
Here's a quote from everyone's favourite socialist George Orwell: "The real objective of Socialism is human brotherhood. This is widely felt to be the case, though it is not usually said, or not said loudly enough. Men use up their lives in heart-breaking political struggles, or get themselves killed in civil wars, or tortured in the secret prisons of the Gestapo, not in order to establish some central-heated, air-conditioned, strip-lighted Paradise, but because they want a world in which human beings love one another instead of swindling and murdering one another." I like this quote from Orwell but you won't find many of today's *socialists* talking with much conviction about "brotherhood" or "love". However, one place where you well might still hear someone talking about "brotherhood" and "love" is in a church. Yes, we're all aware of the hypocrisy which often (usually?) accompanies such talk but I'd claim we'll have religions as long as people feel the need to "witness" to the importance of those ideals. ---In [email protected], <noozguru@...> wrote : Again I am reminded of the Turkish indie movie I saw a few years back on Netflix. The plot was about a son whose father takes the fall for his boss when the boss kills someone while driving drunk. What I particularly remember was the father, released from prison. visits a mosque and finds just a few people there for evening prayers. The film maker was saying that Islam is dying out. Muslims in the west enjoy living and many enjoy the idea of democracy. Most of them were undoubtedly horrified at what happened in Paris. They also have no intention of converting their neighbors to Islam. They look upon the fanatics like many Christians and Jews look upon fanatics from those religions as "nuts." Nothing more underscores this more than the Frontline episode a few years ago about the Muslim kid living in a suburb of Sacramento who "got religion" and ran off to join Al-Qaeda. Hated it. Returned through Canada and decided not to try to come back in the US or he would be arrested. For some reason the FBI arrested his dad who actually loves living in US and loves the country. The episode covered how badly the FBI handled this case. Religions are dying out in the age of psychology as they are no longer needed. On 01/07/2015 04:57 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re "Lampooning others' beliefs may be a tradition in the West but the Muslims don't like it.": Yes, but they are living in the West not an Islamic theocracy! I'm not opposed to everything you're saying as I myself wouldn't print cartoons of Mohammed or gratuitously insult Islam as I wouldn't consider it a helpful contribution. But that's because I'm a sensitive soul. (I've never even seen Python's Life of Brian.) Others disagree and enjoy going into attack-dog mode when taking on their opponents. My posts are essentially saying that they have the right to be offensive. And, as I also indicated, I'd defend the right of a Muslim to argue, say, that blasphemers should be executed. He could argue his case; but if he takes the law into his own hands he'll have to accept the consequences. Which are? "All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote : Lampooning others' beliefs may be a tradition in the West but the Muslims don't like it so I see no purpose in doing it in cartoons that insult the prophet. It only brings negative results, as we have seen. These are the cartoons this magazine published: The Controversial Cartoons That Are Said To Have Inspired The Terrorist Attack Against Charlie Hebdo. “In 2012, the magazine included multiple caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad in which he appeared naked; one was called “Mohammad: a star is born,” and showed a man bent over so his beard was the only thing covering the lower half of his body. The cover depicted Mohammad in a wheelchair being pushed by an Orthodox Jew.” I wouldn’t have advised this magazine to publish any of these, and indeed the French government advised the same. You have to remember that in Islam the prophet is not depicted. It is considered sacrilegious to do so (see the article). No good will come from it. It is just being offensive for the sake of it. The Controversial Cartoons That Are Said To Have Inspi... At least 12 were killed in a terrorist attack on the magazine's offices today. View on thinkprogress.org Preview by Yahoo ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <s3raphita@...> mailto:s3raphita@... wrote : ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote : Ah, the bravery of the liberals who think they have a perfect right to insult anyone's cherished beliefs just because they want to. Brave for sure. They just paid with their lives. Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to insult other people's religion. They don't like it and it is not helpful to the situation. You should have learned that in grade school. Lampooning others' beliefs is a time-honoured tradition in the West. ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <turquoiseb@...> mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : From: "s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife]" mailto:s3raphita@...[FairfieldLife] <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] It's an odd kind of duty to publish cartoons that mock the founder of one of the world's largest religions in the way that is plainly meant to be deeply offensive to adherents of that faith. You say things cut both ways, and the matter of respecting the faith of others does also. Why should anyone *respect* a faith they regard as intolerant of gays or women or free speech? Respect has to be earned. I support anyone's right to criticize Islam as robustly and satirically as they wish; just as I support someone's right to argue that liberal attitudes to sexuality are repugnant. Let everyone say what they wish; we can listen to their claims and come to our own conclusions. What are you afraid of? Thank you for saying this. There is this terrible meme we have inherited for centuries -- both in the East and in the West -- that says, "If we call it 'religious', it's *protected*. You can't say bad stuff about it or criticize it." During many of these centuries, the people saying this were IN CHARGE. Their religion *ran* things. So if anyone *did* say anything critical of their "religious" beliefs, they just killed their asses. Simple as that. What we're seeing today in radical Islam and in the fundamentalist extremes of religion such as Hindu Supremacy is a bunch of religious people wishing that the world still worked that way. They'd really *like* to KILL anyone who doesn't believe the way they think they should. Currently on planet Earth, only one major religion is actually consistently claiming to be PROUD of doing that -- killing anyone who doesn't believe the way they think they should. ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote : It's an odd kind of duty to publish cartoons that mock the founder of one of the world's largest religions in the way that is plainly meant to be deeply offensive to adherents of that faith. You say things cut both ways, and the matter of respecting the faith of others does also. ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <s3raphita@...> mailto:s3raphita@... wrote : Re "That other people don't see the world the same way you do should be the first thing they have to teach at these "faith" schools.": Well, yes. But can you imagine a state, secular school teaching kids that some people regard homosexuality as an abomination, or that women's place is in the home, etc, etc? It cuts both ways. John Stuart Mill in On Liberty argued that we should always have some private (non-state) schools otherwise the state would simply use its monopoly to push the ideology of the ruling Establishment. He was right then; he's right now. The problem is we have two opposing fundamentalisms: religious versus new atheist/PC thinking. I don't subscribe to either as I want people to question all authority. But you don't learn to question authority in school! I suspect you don't *learn* it at all - you either have an enquiring mind or you don't. Anyway, salutations to those killed at Charlie Hebdo. They died in the line of duty.
