Well! I was always tolt I was a Virgo, but whadda I know?
From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Maybe this is why things get so screwed up?
Why should we not be surprised that MJ is a Leo rising with the Sun in his
first house! :-D
That makes you fiercely independent not to mention fiery. You would do well
running your own business. However we should not be surprised given your
storytelling skills that Venus is in your 11th house. A bit weak though and
that would account for you not going into it as a living. Not knowing your
writing an astrologer would probably say you have opportunities at earning
income through creative endeavors.
Rahu and Ketu are debilitated so why shouldn't we be surprised that you are on
the warpath about TM.
On 03/03/2015 02:00 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
OK August 29th, 1956 8:23 am born Greenwood, SC which is 34.1897° N,
82.1547° W
So what does my chart indicate I would be "good at" (other than criticizing
TM). I am asking as a pronounced skeptic.
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Maybe this is why things get so screwed up?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
Sal, can you post an article about a field of science you know something
about so we can discuss it and ask you question about?
Eh? I thought I already had
What fields of science are you expert in? Your horoscope looks like you
might be good at real estate (loaded fourth house) but that's not exactly a
science.
Real estate, is that buying and selling houses? Not really, maybe more than
some due to trades I've done but it's all just about being practical, it isn't
something that engages me or that I'd go out of my way to take part in. And I
hate all the bloody property shows on TV, I can't believe so many people are
so incompetent and lacking in common sense. Still, idiots make better TV...
As far as scientific interests go, you know what I like. I don't posts
prehistoric stuff just because Dinosaurs look cool. Well, mostly I don't...
And I don't post things that I don't understand in case someone does ask me a
question. I post stuff because I find it interesting.
Are you trying to get at me about something?
On 03/02/2015 10:46 PM, salyavin808 wrote:
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
You certainly seem to have a high opinion of "science." Science has given us
many wonderful things but there are also many things it cannot explain.
Can you give us an example of something it "cannot" explain, as opposed to
something it just doesn't have an explanation for yet?
Of the latter there are many but there always were and problems always seem
to get solved eventually. It depends how much effort is being put in. To not
have a high opinion of the scientific method because it hasn't already
answered all questions is a bit silly when you consider the track record.
As for things it can't explain, I don't believe we will ever come across an
unsolvable problem. The universe and everything in it is made of stuff. Stuff
is understandable therefore the universe the universe is understandable.
It will be interesting to be proved wrong on this one.
However, this does not mean that those things are untrue or false. There are
more things in heaven and earth, as Hamlet famously says to Horatio, than are
dreamt of in your philsophy. I suspect that you actually know this very well,
and that your apparent adherence to "science" is more of a pose than anything
else. You were a spiritual seeker all those years and now you are telling me
you don't believe something because "science" tells you it is not so? I suspect
your "atheism" is also something of a pose, but that's another story.
Feste:As far as what science says about astrology, I couldn't care less. If
science says astrology is rubbish, that it cannot be true, etc. etc., that
directly contradicts my own experience, repeated many times over half a
lifetime. So I go with my own experience. I would be a fool not to.
Turquoise: No, you would be a True Believer, ready to prefer your own
subjective experience no matter what, and never even consider the possibility
that it could have been mistaken -- even if science shows that it could very
well be. I can understand that, but I cannot respect it.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :
From: feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
I'mnot sure what you mean by "normal TM elitist." When I said that the
astrologer Howard Sasportas also happened to be a TM teacher, I certainly did
not mean that that automatically made him better than others. It was just a
piece of information about him, that's all. Sometimes you read things that
aren't there.
I don't think so. I wasn't referring to Sasportas as all, and in fact
neither his name nor any reference you made to him registered to me at
all...I've never heard of the guy. I was referring to a *recurring* sense of
elitism that I have perceived in you and in *most* long-term TMers, exemplified
in statements like "I'm sorry for these scientific types whose minds are so
closed. I wonder whether any of them have ever had their natal chart done by a
competent astrologer. I would doubt it." That's elitism. You *look down* on
those who don't agree with you. Another aspect of elitism, to an even greater
degree, is, "I have studied it, you have not," which as Salyavin pointed out
wasn't even said by Issac Newton about astrology. You say this a different way
in your last statement below.
For the record, I *have no problem* with your statements about having
learned much about yourself from astrology. That's your concern. Mine is just
that as a means of prediction, it's utterly and completely useless. Its
predictive value has never and will never be proven in any kind of scientific
context in which the astrologers are blinded from meeting their clients (and
thus "cold-reading" them) and prevented from making generalized "predictions"
that would apply to anyone. Another aspect of what I call "TM elitism" is that
long-term TMers tend to believe pretty much *what they were told to believe*
by Maharishi, and seem incapable of challenging or questioning it.
Wewill have to agree to differ about astrology.
That's fine with me.
There'sfar more to it than intuition.
I don't think so.
AsI explained to Sal, the readings I had were not "vague generalities." They
were precise and accurate, and they very much related to me as a specific
individual. You must have either seen some bad astrologers or have been so
lacking in self-insight that you didn't recognize yourself in what they told
you.
Either that, or you are like all of those college students in the famous
experiment who were all given the exact same horoscope to read and told that it
was done for them personally. When the real nature of the experiment was
revealed to them, over half refused to believe that it was true. Even when
they compared the "readings" they'd been given line for line and found them
identical, a few refused to believe it and thought that someone had switched
them to play a trick on them. I think that it's more likely that you bought
into generalities and at this point you don't want to even admit the
possibility that they weren't generalities. But I have no interest in arguing
with you...believe what you want.
By the way, that "lacking in self-insight" was another elitist slam. One
might suggest that YOU are so lacking in self-insight that you don't even
realize when you're being an elitist.
I remember hearing that MMY said that the only purpose of astrology was to
predict the future.
I have heard the same thing...that he said that. That is what I dispute. I
don't think astrology is of *any use whatsoever* to predict the future.
I don't think he cared at all about developing an understanding of the
"relative" self, since he promoted transcendence of it. But I have to disagree
with him over that. To me, predicting the future has been the least important
aspect of astrology.
That's fair, and I have no issue with you feeling that way.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :
On the contrary, I will step up to the plate and give Feste a detailed (and
long) answer from my POV, largely because I think he was trying *not* to be
mean...just a normal TM elitist. ("We can't help it if these skeptics don't
know as much as we do.") :-)
From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@...[FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
I'llstep aside and wait for Sal to answer this one - anything I say
would just sound mean.
From: feste37 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
Inmy experience over the past 35 years, and I have said so on this board
more than once, astrology is the best tool for self-understandingthat there
is—at least, the best I have found.
Feste will probably be surprised to learn that I agree with him -- that
astrology, used correctly, can be a tool for self-analysis and
self-understanding.But so can tarot cards. So can "reading tea leaves." So can
divining the future by examining the recently-removedentrails of an animal.
*In my opinion*, in ALL of these cases it is possible for a person to gain
valuable glimpses into the lives of themselves or others via any of these
"divining tools."
BUT, I would also say that IMO the "tools" have nothing whatsoever to do with
what they "see" or what they "learn" except by acting as a trigger to set off
their own intuition. The astrology charts don't do diddleysquat, and contain
no useful information. The tea leaves likewise don't do diddley, and as for
the entrails, well, they're just a big steaming pile of internal organs. How
all of these things "work" IMO is that they *trick* the practitioner into
accessing their own intuition.
Think of it in terms of Disney's "Dumbo." Dumbo the elephant had huge ears,
and after his friend gave him a magic feather to hold in his trunk, he could
fly using them. But, after enjoying flying a lot, his friend finally told him
that it was a normal old turkey feather, and that the only reason he could fly
while holding it and couldn't fly before was that he *believed* he could if he
was holding on to the "magic" feather. Well, that is how I think astrology,
tarot, reading tea leaves, and reading the steaming entrails of lemurs
"works." They are psychic tricks that the practitioners of these "arts" play
on themselves to trigger their own latent intuition and kickstart it into
working.
(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543 -- #yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp #yiv1320367543hd
{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp #yiv1320367543ads
{margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp .yiv1320367543ad
{padding:0 0;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp .yiv1320367543ad p
{margin:0;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mkp .yiv1320367543ad a
{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor
#yiv1320367543ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor #yiv1320367543ygrp-lc #yiv1320367543hd {margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor #yiv1320367543ygrp-lc .yiv1320367543ad
{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543actions
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543activity
{background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543activity span:first-child
{text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543activity span a
{color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543activity span
span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543activity span
.yiv1320367543underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1320367543
.yiv1320367543attach
{clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543attach div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543attach img
{border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543attach label
{display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543attach label a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 blockquote {margin:0 0 0
4px;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543bold
{font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543
.yiv1320367543bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 dd.yiv1320367543last
p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543 dd.yiv1320367543last p
span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543
dd.yiv1320367543last p span.yiv1320367543yshortcuts
{margin-right:0;}#yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543attach-table div div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543attach-table
{width:400px;}#yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543file-title a, #yiv1320367543
div.yiv1320367543file-title a:active, #yiv1320367543
div.yiv1320367543file-title a:hover, #yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543file-title
a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543photo-title a,
#yiv1320367543 div.yiv1320367543photo-title a:active, #yiv1320367543
div.yiv1320367543photo-title a:hover, #yiv1320367543
div.yiv1320367543photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543
div#yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1320367543ygrp-msg p a
span.yiv1320367543yshortcuts
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv1320367543
.yiv1320367543green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543MsoNormal
{margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv1320367543 o {font-size:0;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543photos div div {border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543photos div label
{color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv1320367543 .yiv1320367543replbq
{margin:4px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
{margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg
{font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv1320367543 input, #yiv1320367543 textarea
{font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1320367543 code {font:115%
monospace;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg *
{line-height:1.22em;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1320367543logo
{padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-msg p a
{font-family:Verdana;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-msg
p#yiv1320367543attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-reco #yiv1320367543reco-head
{color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-reco
{margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor
#yiv1320367543ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor #yiv1320367543ov li
{font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-sponsor #yiv1320367543ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
8px;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-text
{font-family:Georgia;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em
0;}#yiv1320367543 #yiv1320367543ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv1320367543
#yiv1320367543ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none
!important;}#yiv1320367543
