Yes Doug, you nailed it. Those that deride the TMO, particularly thinking of Barry, don't care to admit to their own obsession with TM, and choose to couch it, as some sort of "investigation into cults' for the "benefit" of larger society, or possibly to serve the LR.
Now, MJ,....MJ, well there's a special case. He's gone so far down the rabbit hole, I imagine there's a crowd gathering at the other end, just to see what comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out as a Hare Krishna devotee when it's all said and done. ---In [email protected], <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Yeah, I also find the fanaticism of MJ here and MJ's anti-TM-anti-Maharishi christian friends operating out in the world as a group interesting to watch and in the same way the fanaticism of the TM Prime Minister and the people he allows around him to be terribly interesting as studies in group think. The 'conference' and TM leadership.. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/411540 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/411540 ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" <[email protected]> This is good, Turq. Hell has clearly frozen over. :-) Thanks for the comment, and for the article you recommend below. I will look it over, but probably later because it doesn't seem to fit in with my cafe mood right this instant. Just watching Jewish fanatics and Christian fanatics in "Dig" was challenging enough. I don' t think I have the energy right now to eavesdrop on how Islamic fanatics think. I too have a similar and long interest to yours around watching groups. Recently I found reading down in to a BBC Magazine article on fanaticism and Al Quiada a good reflection on the culturing of groups and a consequent selectivity to their utility around mission that can go on in most any group, to varying degrees. Take a look at this BBC article looking in to the extremes of fanaticism within groups of individuals: Coming in from al-Qaeda, Aimen Dean is a founder member of al-Qaeda.. "I give you an allegiance to fight alongside you in good times and in bad times and to fight the jihad against the enemies of god and to obey my commanders." Aimen Dean: There is no single process of radicalization. Some people, it took them years to be convinced of coming to the jihad and some people it took them minutes. Some people were studying in religious seminaries - they're a minority by the way - and then decided to come and some people basically just came straight out of a night club you know while he was consuming alcohol basically to come and seek redemption there in the jihadist world. So you know you see immediately that you know there isn't one single classical journey there, that there are so many journeys. Q: But they all want martyrdom? A: They all want martyrdom and redemption and to various degrees. Some people will come to you and say you know I'm really tired, I want to be martyred as soon as possible. And some people will come to you and say I want to be martyred but not before I give the enemies of god hell on this earth. I want to live for as long as possible to give them as much hell as possible and then taken out by them. Q: So some, some are basically suicidal to begin with, and others just have blood lust? A: Yes. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : As many of you have figured out by now, I am a fan of cults. NOT in the sense that I ever hope to be part of one again (been there, done that...twice), but in the sense that I find cults and cultists fascinating to watch. The insane fervor they bring to beliefs that most people around them would find laughable, and the seeming willingness that cultists have to lie, steal, break the law and even kill to protect these outlier beliefs never ceases to fascinate me. So I'm going to rap for a little while in this cafe this morning about the most powerful cult-watching experience I've had recently. It was so powerful that I've now *repeated* my voyeuristic dip into watching these particular cultists three times, and learned more about cults, cultists, and the dangerous unreason of religion than I have in many years. I'm speaking, as some might have guessed, about watching the first episode of Gideon Raff and Tim Kring's new "event series" (as opposed to "TV series"...see the interview I post at the end for the difference, as explained eloquently by star Jason Issacs) called "Dig." DIG - Official Trailer #1 (March 5, 2015) - New Event Series on USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYh8V0GFUA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYh8V0GFUA DIG - Official Trailer #1 (March 5, 2015) - New Event Se... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYh8V0GFUA View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYh8V0GFUA Preview by Yahoo "But wait," I can hear some out there in the FFL audience thinking, "I've seen the trailers and this doesn't seem to be a series about cults." Ah, but it is. The first episode is set primarily in and around the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, which as one character describes it in the first episode, is "the most hotly contested 300 square meters in human history, and has been for over 2,000 years." And in that time it has been fought over by many cults, primary among them being Jews, Christians, and Muslims. "But wait," I can hear the same nay-sayers thinking, "those aren't cults -- those are religions." Au contraire, Pierre. They are -- and remain -- cults. The only reason people think of them as religions is that the cults have grown so large that they have taken on some semblance of legitimacy. But if you really look deeply into both the beliefs and the actions of members of the *mainstream* versions of these three cults, let alone the splinter groups we've seen split off from them, it's pretty clear that you're dealing with cults, and cultists. And that is downright in your face in this first episode of "Dig." I have never been to Jerusalem, and don't have any desire to go. But it was fascinating for me to see this TV action/adventure/conspiracy thriller set there, with cameras taking advantage of 2,000-year-old backdrops and 2,000 year-old real conspiracies to lend authenticity to their tale. In the interview I post at the end, Jason Issacs talks about reading the script and being amazed at the plot machinations and asking the two creators where they got these ideas. They answer simply, "From the newspapers and from the Bible." And that's really IT. The characters Jason Issacs' FBI agent character stumbles across and chases across many continents in this tale are in fact straight out of the headlines. There ARE fundamentalist Jewish sects as crazy as the ones you see in this first episode. They DO wear outlandish (by society's standards) religious costumes and wear their hair in odd ways that marks them *instantly* as cultists. In America there ARE fundamentalist Christian sects who are actively doing everything they possibly can to *bring about the end of the world*, because they believe that Armageddon was prophesied, and they are so self-important that they want to make sure that they themselves live in the "End Times." And all we have to do to see how crazy the modern-day Islamic cultists are is to read the headlines. What was interesting for me with my fascination with cults was watching the scenes set in Jerusalem and marveling at a place whose very *everyday existence* has been shaped and dictated by cults. For two millennia. The way people dress, the ways they interact, the things they take for granted. Especially the latter. Jason Issacs' FBI agent works with a local Israeli cop, who is on the surface a modern, cynical guy. But when it comes to entering a building that he knows is held sacred by stronger believers than himself, he reaches into his pocket for a yarmulke and pops in on his head without even having to think about it. It's an *automatic* gesture, one conditioned by having to repeat it thousands of times a year every year of his life. This is the thing that struck me, watching the scenes set in Jerusalem. It is a place designed by fanatics, who have compelled people living there for two millennia to behave in the same old ways they do. It's the kind of place Buck would design, if he were given the right to do so. One in which deference to religion (and even the most outlier, fanatical aspects of religion) is *built in* to the society. Suffice it to say I probably wouldn't be happy there. :-) But it's fascinating to watch, from the safety of a country that is probably just as mixed in terms of people from different groups, ethnicities, and religions. You certainly *see* people dressed in their native or religious costumes here, but somehow it's not as *in your face* as it seems to be in Jerusalem. How do I put this? In "Dig" you see Ultra-Orthodox Jews walking around in their distinctive costumes as if they own the sidewalks they're walking on, and people actually move aside, as they have been taught to do for millennia. Try to imagine what Fairfield would be like if *its* cult aristocracy (the Rajas) walked around town like the leaders of a street gang, *assuming* that everyone would defer to them and that they could do anything they wanted. And why? Because of what they *believe*, and because they are completely, totally convinced that these beliefs are RIGHT, damnit. Anyway, these are just a few cafe thoughts dashed off stream-of-consciousness style, with no editing and no second thoughts, sitting here in a Leiden cafe thinking back on watching a TV special set in -- from my perspective -- Cult Central, the city of Jerusalem. If you wind up watching this series, Your Mileage May Vary. These were just a few thoughts that watching it brought up for me. 'Dig' Premiere: Jason Isaacs Dispels 'Da Vinci Code' Comparisons, Talks 'Creepy' New Thriller http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/dig-premiere-jason-isaacs-dispels-da-vinci-code-comparisons-in-creepy-new-thriller-1201447073/ http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/dig-premiere-jason-isaacs-dispels-da-vinci-code-comparisons-in-creepy-new-thriller-1201447073/ 'Dig' Premiere: Jason Isaacs Dispels 'Da Vinci Code' Com... http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/dig-premiere-jason-isaacs-dispels-da-vinci-code-comparisons-in-creepy-new-thriller-1201447073/ USA Network's "Dig," a 10-part mystery thriller created by "Homeland's" Gideon Raff and "Heroes'" Tim Kring, premieres at 10 p.m. on March 5. The event series stars... View on variety.com http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/dig-premiere-jason-isaacs-dispels-da-vinci-code-comparisons-in-creepy-new-thriller-1201447073/ Preview by Yahoo
