Kundalini versus One that rests in Realization ..... One is still
in the midst of Phenomena and seeking while the other has
passed through and rests within Balance .....
* Both Baba and Gurumayi claimed to have attained this -
Muktananda even described the actual experience in great detail, in
his autobiography. Assuming they were not outright lying, it is
possible to be mistaken about such things.
G: usually your Guru will ascertain IF it is full Enlightenment
or not ... one can seem to be there and yet just fall short ...
> > G: not necessarily ...... a verifiable lineage is no
guarantee of the transmission ..... it only gives a basic outline
for the direction of teachings and path .....
* My understanding has been that the ancient sampradayas go back
to the ishta-Devata - that they have the direct blessing of God -
and the mantras and such are imbued with this. So it rises above the
limitations of a particular teacher - though no doubt having a
fully Realized being in the Guru's seat is the ideal.
G: what do you believe the ishta devata's to be ? do you think
that a Realized Being doesn't have the Direct God blessings ?
Most sampradayas go back to figures like Adi Shankaracharya who was
a God Realized Being and therefore a representation of the living
Dynamic and Wisdom of Shiva .... many see Adi Shankaracharya as an
incarnation of Shiva ....
here is more on this Sampradaya lineage -
http://www.hinduism.co.za/dasnami.htm
my ties are through this sampradaya Puri & Giri
it is an ancient lineage but again what is important is not
lineage but to find a Realized Being which speaks from
Direct Knowing versus ideas about constructed around the
various dogmatic renderings ... a Realized One can
get to the heart of it all and like the Swan separate
fact from fiction....
G: what do you term a Dharmic standard of behavior .... moral
yes of course.......
* For a yogi, the Dharmic standard is Yama and Niyama, I would
say.
G: that is only a preliminary to begin to start a path ... a
place to begin to focus .... like in christianity you have the 10
commandments ... for those who are not awakened it gives a basic
guideline ....
* For those who might not be aware of this, these are the first
two stages of yoga, according to the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali. Yama
is moral or ethical restraint - the aspects are Ahimsa (not
harming), Satya (not lying), Asteya (not stealing), Brahmacharya
(not indulging in lust), and Aparigraha (not coveting - or even
accepting - more than one's basic needs).
G: exactly the hindu version of the 10 commandments...
* Niyama is moral or ethical observances - the aspects are
Shaucha (cleanliness, purity), Santosha (being content with what
is), Tapas (practicing austerity), Swadhyaya (study of the Scriptures
and spiritual writings), and Ishwara Pranidhana (surrender to the
Divine). None of this would seem too much to expect of someone
purportedly one with God.
G: there is nothing left to study for one that lives within the
Reality of what the scriptures point in the direction of ....
*Dress should be modest, and even if not sannyasi, they
should have a simple, humble lifestyle. Any appetite for
luxuries, fine clothing, expensive cars, etc, is a sure sign of
someone to avoid.
G: what about King Janak he was Realized .... he was a King
if he wore silk and lived in a palace was he any less realized
would he have been any less of a Sat Guru if he had devotees ?
....
a hut or a palace it is the same ....Vairagya is non attachment
* Well, in theory. Siddha Yoga was very opulent, so perhaps my
opinion of the "Guru Maharaj" lifestyle is tainted by that.
G: so you are speaking of a specific event and not in a general
manner ....
* But I still would think there is a reason why a yogi, a sadhu,
is a *renunciate* of worldly wealth. Jesus said, "It is easier for
a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to
enter the Kingdom of God."
G: it is not impossible ... a rich man is usually ATTACHED to
the riches ... this is why Christ told the rich man to go and sell
all that he had and then come back .... wealth wasn't the problem
it was the Attachment to it which was the stumbling block ...
If it were simply a matter of being poor is my holy then King Janaka
would have been doomed and all the homeless beggars would be
realized... that is simply not the case...
it is the Attachment and Hunger for wealth that is the
problem...
* Not impossible, perhaps - but not likely either.
G: i see no variance between money versus not in this matter...
although one that is Realized does not strive to *gain* riches etc..
there is no *attachment* to *cling to* or to *obtain* such things...
if it were in place before OK ...
* I would think they would make no claim to being
enlightened, not give themselves pretentious titles, or be
seeking wealth and fame.
G: ah then Buddha was a fake ( he clearly claimed to be
Buddha which means Fully Awakened )
Christ must also have been a fake - I and the Father are
ONE if you have seen me you have seen the Father that sent me
it isn't pretentious if it is true ...... it is simply what is
*** Dear sister, are you claiming then to be on the level of the
Buddha and the Christ? How often do we get a One like that?
G: More often than you know ... legends grew up Around Buddha
that is all .....
your facetiousness is showing in the dear sister comment ...
i know your thoughts about what is here .... she is knowlegable but
hardly Realized.... Torrey - Realization is Realization ... that
is all ....
Buddha means simply Awakened - Realized.. it doesn't mean being a
God ... so YES ANY that are awakened are simply Buddha .... it is
NOT a Special Title ... it means ONLY Awakened ... Realized ....
and there is Nothing Special in this .... it is simply what IS the
heart and Core of Reality versus egoic blindness into separation...
* It would surely be wonderful to find an Avatar on Yahoo!
Stranger things have happened...I have an open mind...
G: do you really have an open mind??? Buddha was not an Avatar
he did not come in Realized ... he was a seeker - left home -
became a yogi ... did practice - eventually did self enquiry - the
path and came to Realization.... the person siddharath imploded ...
what was left was Buddha (Awakened One) ...
* The real thing draws the seekers like bees to the flowers -
there is no need for marketing plans and big organizations.
G: there have been many Realized Ones who have never
been *discovered* ...... it doesn't necessarily draw others .....
whether discovered or not it only benefits the world ......
* On this we are agreed. God's saints are mostly the "angels
unawares" that we might pass on the street every day. Only some are
called to be teachers. It is to them that the bees gather...
G: ah so they aren't floating 10 feet off the ground ? hahahahaha
no they look like regular people ... it is only those who see
auras that can tell and see the clarity of their energy
fields... that is all ....
Namaste Swami G. - I thank you for the dialogue.
Namaste you are welcome
maha shanti om
0
>
> Torrey
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