Strawmen and half truths. And no retractions, or acknowledgements when they've been shown to be wrong.
---In [email protected], <richard@...> wrote : Obviously we are dealing with some kind of retards, Steve. These guys can't even seem to carry on a simple conversation. It's complicated, so their only recourse is to post a series of strawmen arguments. Quoting "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]>: > I am not sure what other conclusion you can come to. > You can tell when someone is old when they talk more about the past instead of the future. > > I mean, Barry left this movement some forty years ago, and each year > he finds a way to knock it down a few notches, but each year he > spends more time talking about it. > Apparently he really got upset when he was kicked out of the Rama cult. You would probably be upset too, if you had worked for the cult leader for a decade, tacking up posters and handing out flyers for levitation events, donating thousands of dollars to Lenz, so he could buy himself a Mercedes Benz and live in a mansion up in Westchester, NY. > > So, how do you go about reconciling that without coming to the > conclusion that he doesn't have much going on in his life, except > hours poured into watching TV and pirated movies on his computer, and > maybe a little technical writing on the side to cover rent. > It must be depressing living over there as an poor immigrant; shunned by your peers, not being able to work or even understand the language. That's got to affect you after a decade of deprivation. Apparently they don't even have a Starbucks in Leiden or a single Uber ride-share. Gawd! > > And Michael has his permanent blinders on to make sure he doesn't > happen upon anything which goes against his world view of things. > > Confirmation bias is when people look for instances that agree with them, and ignore instances that disagree. Go figure. > > Of course he told us yesterday he was readying for trip to see his daughter. > Apparently he got split up from his wife. After paying child support, he is probably upset about his situation - not ever going to school so he could get a good job. So, he transfers his anger at you - throwing his old friends under the bus in the process. You're trying to help him, but you can only do so much since he's obviously an impostor - he has to work out his own karma. You're doing good by counseling him and trying to cheer him up though. Thanks. > > But, nothing seems to keep him from his serial posting to FFL. > > > > ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], > <richard@...> wrote : > > > They really seem to be JELLOS of you and Buck. They probably are > envious of you because you own your own prosperous company and that > you have a family with a wife and all. They seem lonely and desperate > for someone to talk to. > > They seem to have a sad story to tell. They probably wanted to be > spiritual teachers but they sucked at it. They even have trouble in a > simple conversation. At one time, I thought maybe they were retarded > but they are probably just going through old age angst. > > Maybe they will feel better if you keep talking to them and drawing > them out. Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk > to. Keep up the good work, Steve! > > Quoting "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]>: mailto:[email protected]>: > > > > I can't help reflect on it Richard. > > > > I would say that as far as Barry, Salyavin and Michael area > > concerned, it is, all about "Buck". > > > > > > It's the FFL version of groundhog day. > > > > > > Buck posts the same comment every day, and these three, along with > > anataxius respond to it, as if it's the first time they've heard it. > > > > > > But, this is their version of, (genuflect), "content" > > > > > > Barry made his grand policy statement a few weeks ago about swearing > > off Doug, but, I think he discovered that, oops, he didn't have > > anything to talk about. > > > > > > He's probably posted all the atheist cartoons available, lampooning > > theists, so I guess he's circling back to his same old, same old. > > > > > > Ya gotta love him, though, in his own way. > > > > > > Always True To You In My Fashion > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > > > > Always True To You In My Fashion > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ Ann Miller and Tommy Rall > > singing Always True To You In My Fashion From Kiss Me Kate No > > copyright infringement intended > > > > > > > > View on www.youtube.com http://www.youtube.com http://www.youtube.com > http://www.youtube.com > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3WGkx1MYDQ > > Preview by Yahoo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected], mailto:[email protected], > <richard@...> wrote : > > > > It's a clear case of transference, Steve - everyone knows that Barry > > has been, and probably still is, in a cult of Rama and now he feels > > guilty about it and wants to transfer his cognitive dissonce onto > > Buck. The question is, was Barry forced into working for the cult or > > did he volunteer? Apparently nobody forced him to give up all that > > money. Go figure. > > > > Most of the stuff Barry says about "cults" is misinformation and > > junk science that has been debunked years ago by social scientists. > > If cult "brainwashing" worked we could use it on our criminals in our > > prisons. If brainwashing works, then we can assume that Barry was > > himself brainwashed. > > > > Then the question becomes is Barry still under the spell of the, now > > dead, cult leader and still covertly working for the cult? > > > > Quoting "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]>: mailto:[email protected]>: > mailto:[email protected]>: mailto:[email protected]>: > > > > > > > Yes, we get to hear the same sermon which Barry has delivered 2000 > > > times before. > > > > > > The self appointed anti cult czar. > > > > > > > > > This is what constitutes "content" for Barry. > > > > > > > > > ---In [email protected] > mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], mailto:[email protected], > <anartaxius@...> wrote : > > > > > > At least Doug is inspiring interesting replies, which partially > > > accounts for FFL having at least 3 times the number of posts as The > > > Peak since about May 17. The contrast of viewpoints is the driver of > > > inspiration in some and displeasure in others. In scientific > > > discussions, people argue and eventually some headway is made. In > > > spiritual circles, people argue and little headway is ever made > > > because the arguments are over imaginary things instead of real > > > things. If spirituality ever really adopted evidence for its claims, > > > progress could be made in settling many points of dispute. There is a > > > certain lack of honesty that permeates spiritual discourse. > > > > > > > > > A note (published in 1794) by Thomas Paine, one of the instigators > > > of the American Revolution, regarding religious thinking (Paine was > > > something of a Deist by the way, not an atheist): > > > > > > > > > 'All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, > > > or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to > > > terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do > > > not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; > > > they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is > > > necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to > > > himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in > > > disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not > > > believe.' > > > > > > > > > 'It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so > > > express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has > > > so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to > > > subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he > > > has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He > > > takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and, in order to > > > qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we > > > conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" > > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > To: "[email protected]" > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 1:26 PM > > > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those who don't believe in > > conspiracies > > > > > > > > > > > > What Doug fails to understand -- yet again -- is that you don't > > > protect people from conspiracy theories by "moderating" (Buck's word > > > for "banning") those claims. You protect people by raising their > > > awareness of how to think without falling into the traps that > > > conspiracy theorists prey on, and by teaching them how to analyze ANY > > > claim to see if it holds up when compared to science, logic, and > > > Occam's Razor. > > > > > > > > > > > > To really do this, and protect people, this kind of education needs > > > to start in elementary school and then be carried forward throughout > > > the remainder of one's education. Students need to be taught how to > > > analyze claims made by religion, by cults, by politicians, and by > > > those with an agenda who want them to buy into their conspiracy > > > theories/agenda. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why I'm bothering to write this is that in reality the person who > > > has been most consistent in trying to sell conspiracy theories to > > > people on FFL is *Doug himself*. *He* is the one claims that there is > > > a conspiracy of evil-intentioned people to drive away the "real" > > > spiritual people by creating an atmosphere in which claims can > > > actually BE examined in the way I suggest above. *He* is the one > > > trying to ban people like me and Sal and Michael, who are in fact > > > trying to present to those who tend to fall for claims without > > > analyzing them thoroughly ways in which they really could and should > > > analyze such claims. > > > > > > > > > > > > Buck wants a world in which *He* gets to decide what's "appropriate" > > > to be said and what isn't. None of the people he wants to ban from > > > FFL want that. We want, in fact,the opposite. We would like to see a > > > forum in which everyone is free to challenge and analyze ANY claim, > > > whether it is made by TB TMers or people who don't like TM and the > > > TMO very much. Sal and Michael and I have been advocating the very > > > thing that Buck *claims* to support here, but that his actual > > > behavior has clearly shown that he hates, and is trying to prevent. > > > He'd like to "moderate away" the people who actually subject claims > > > to analysis. We would like to see more such analysis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > Yep, conspiracy theorizing is sort of like nicotine to an addiction > > > to harder things that become perniciously asocial like, “The most > > > unbalanced members of a society, when exposed to these ideas, can be > > > driven to commit terrible acts, including assault and mass murder”. > > > Conspiracy theorizing should be moderated by everyone for everyone's > > > protection. A strong protection against conspiracy theorists is in a > > > vital and strong free public education for all citizens, at the > > > least, that starts early and is sustained in to adulthood providing > > > the critical skill-sets to have a more widely informed citizenry. > > > -JaiGuruYou! > > > ---In [email protected] > mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], mailto:[email protected], > <turquoiseb@...> wrote : > > > > > > Re: Conspiracy theories as addiction, here's an article on the very > > > subject. Interestingly enough, the article -- sane and surprisingly > > > sanely written until you get to the last section -- appears on a > > > class-A conspiracy site. Go figure. That said, doesn't this quote > > > sound familiar? How many times have we heard the word "sheeple" used > > > by conspiracy theory addicts here on FFL? > > > > > > > > > > > > The obsession with conspiracy theories has been compared to an > > > addiction. Once one has delved deeply into this mindset, recovery—a > > > return to balanced, sound thinking—is rare. What motivates a person > > > to immerse himself in them in the first place? > > > > > > > > > Conspiracy theories are a powerful source of pride and a wellspring > > > of intellectual vanity. The theorist comes to see himself as thinking > > > on a higher plane than the ignorant masses around him. He walks the > > > fringes of society, watching his surroundings with suspicion. No one > > > realizes what’s going on, he thinks. > > > > > > > > > If speaking his mind on conspiracies causes others to recoil, he > > > simply dismisses them as “dumb sheep” who cannot see what he sees. > > > Every episode like this further reaffirms how special this inside > > > information makes him. > > > > > > > > > Why Conspiracy Theories? > > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why Conspiracy Theories? > > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html A Magazine > > > Restoring Plain Understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > View on realtruth.org > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > http://realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html > > > Preview by Yahoo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" > > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > To: "[email protected]" > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:48 AM > > > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For those who don't believe in > > conspiracies > > > > > > > > > > > > From: salyavin808 <[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > ---In [email protected] > mailto:[email protected] > mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], > mailto:[email protected], mailto:[email protected], > <noozguru@...> wrote : > > > > > > One big one announced today. You and I do this we go to jail. The > > > banksters get a light fine. Their CEOs should be in prison and banks > > > broken up. > > > > > > > > > There isn't anyone who doesn't believe there are conspiracies. If > > > you were to tell me this was a plot by a secret shadow government to > > > help their reptilian overlords gain more power in the world then I > > > would say you were speculating beyond what is required for a > > > satisfactory explanation. That would be a conspiracy theory. Though > > > not a very good one as it involves things we don't know anything > > > about and have no knowledge of, like reptilian aliens and a > > > government competent enough to pull off complex projects. > > > > > > > > > Exactly. Conspiracies that stand the test of Occam's Razor have a > > > chance of having happened, because one does not have to invent > > > > > > > irrational and unprovable things to believe in them. Conspiracy > > > theories require the person who believes in them to invest in things > > > that cannot meet the Occam's Razor test (because there are simpler > > > and more likely explanations) and require the believer to invest in > > > the existence of complex "add-ons" to reality that cannot be proven > > > to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > The worst part about conspiracy theories IMO is that they are > > > addictive. There have been many studies showing that the moment > > > someone suspends belief in the rational and invests in one conspiracy > > > theories, they are much more likely to believe the next conspiracy > > > theory presented to them. Preferring irrational beliefs that cannot > > > pass the Occam's Razor test becomes a habit, so what you wind up with > > > is the people who flock to radio and TV shows that basically present > > > nothing *but* conspiracy theories. And the audiences, having now put > > > on the mindset of "believing the unbelievable" and "turning off their > > > discrimination," tune in every day to find out the next unlikely > > > thing they're supposed to feel all "elite" and "special" for > > > "knowing." > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words, conspiracy theories are a drug, those who believe in > > > them are junkies, and those who promote them are pushers.
