--- In [email protected], "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Response below: > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "L B Shriver" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "L B Shriver" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Rick Archer > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > on 12/2/05 10:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were these women highly educated and established > > > > > > > > in professional society at the time they were > > > > > > > > allegedly victimized by Maharishi? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well educated relative to their age at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Or is this something they achieved after that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > So their alleged victimization didn't seem to get > > > > > > in the way of their having successful careers, at > > > > > > any rate. > > > > > > > > > > > > And most victims of incest, by the way, are young > > > > > > girls, not adult women. > > > > > > > > > > ******** > > > > > > > > > > Your mastery of context could be slipping. Cult > > > > > members generally are in a relationship in which > > > > > the leader or guru is in the parental role, and > > > > > usually a perverted parental role at that. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you think this has to do with > > > > what I've been saying, L.B., or why you think my > > > > "mastery of context" could be slipping. Care to > > > > elaborate? > > > > > > > > As I've already indicated, I have no problem with > > > > the concept of the leader/guru taking a parental > > > > role. That was never what I objected to. > > > > > > > > Perhaps you should do a little checking of the > > > > context yourself. > > > > > > > @@@@@@@@ > > > > > > Here is the context: > > > > > > > > > And most victims of incest, by the way, are young > > > > > > girls, not adult women. > > > > > > True enough, except that the "incest" we have been discussing in > > > this thread is the variety known as "spiritual incest" (a term > > > which you have argued against previously in this thread, if I > > > recall correctly). > > > > Right. That most victims of incest are young children > > rather than adults is yet another reason why the term > > "spiritual incest" is inappropriate. > > > > > > If I may be permitted a small digression: the term "spiritual > > > incest" cannot be correctly understood by exactly parsing its > > > constituents. It has a special meaning which applies most > > > clearly in the cult context. You have argued against its > > > application here based on your parsing, including the argument > > > quoted above regarding the ages of the victims. > > > > No, actually what I've been arguing is that > > borrowing the term "incest" for that phrase acts > > as a thought-stopper, invoking the reaction of > > horror and disgust people normally have to incest > > in a very different kind of situation to which > > that kind of reaction may be inappropriate. > > > > It's an example of using emotionally loaded > > language to bypass the critical thinking process. > > > > Rather than responding to what you go on to say, > > I'll just refer you to the quotes from my > > contributions to the alt.m.t discussion I posted > > earlier, which address your points directly. > > > > <snip> > > > Another small digression: Many people have commented in this forum > > > that they think MMY's alleged infractions amount to "no big deal". > > > However, for the reasons I have referred to above, such abuses are > > > universally condemned in civil society. > > > > As well they should be. > > > > However, I'd suggest that the degree and intensity > > of the condemnation should probably *not* be > > universal; some instances of such behavior are > > distinctly worse than others, so it makes sense to > > consider them on a case-by-case basis. > > > > Which is another reason why I object to the "spiritual > > incest" phrase. It tends to evoke the same intensity > > of revulsion to *all* such instances, when it may not > > be at all appropriate for some of them. > > > > > This is the context in which our discussion is relevant. Your point > > > about the ages of the victims applies to "ordinary" incest, not the > > > variety we are dealing with here. > > > > Yes, that *was* my point. The intensity of the > > reaction to incest is at least partly a function > > of the fact that the victims of incest are > > physically and psychologically so vulnerable. > > > > Not that victims of sexual abuse by spiritual > > teachers are not also vulnerable, but there are > > significant differences in the *nature* of their > > vulnerability, among other reasons because they're > > typically much older. > > > > Consider the difference in the reaction to a > > father having sex with his adult daughter, and > > a father having sex with his 12-year-old daughter. > > There are common elements, but there are also > > marked differences. The term "spiritual incest" > > fuzzes over those differences. > > > > I'd be pleased to continue this discussion with > > you if you're so inclined, but again I'd ask that > > you read my earlier post so you have a better idea > > of what my arguments are without my having to > > repeat myself to set you straight on the context. > > > &&&&&&&& > > I do not feel that I have misunderstood the context, nor do I think it would be useful to > delve into your alt. postings to understand it "better". > > You have made it clear that you do not feel the term "spiritual incest" is appropriate. You > have parsed it to show your reasoning. I am saying that the term has been accepted in > popular usage >>
Bullshit, if you used that term on TV about some celebrity that was having sex with her adult yoga students you would get sued for all your life's worth. You live in a dreamworld if you think it is normal parlance to talk of gurus having encounters with adults and being called 'spiritual incest' is normal parlance. OffWorld ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
