--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Debate as focussed on ideas. If there is some incorrect fact or > > logic, or one disagrees with presumptions of the poster, its all > > fine and good to present another view. Or to question what the > > poster meant. > > > > Gotcha posts are focussed on showing that the poster is dumb, > > perverse, a rogue, and liar, and/or a hypocrite - and the post > > focuses on these qualities, often repeatededly, and not the issues > > raised in the post. And a sense of vengence, vindictiveness and / > > or retribution often bubbles to the surface in Gotcha posts. > > You're talking about *tone*, then. That's pretty > subjective.
Its far more than tone. Its primarily focus. Gotcha posts focus on personal attacks. Debate focusses on futhering the understanding of ideas. And it has to do with intent, though admitedly that is not always easy to discern clearly and without ambiguity. Though for example, on your recent post about Vaj's AMT posts, your intent appears clearly to show that Vaj is a liar and hypocrite, nad not to further any particular idea along. Though imputing motive can be quite a slippery slope and can, if done loosely, lead to perverse and tired accusations. > > As in your recent gotcha of Vaj. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80861 > > But you saw nothing vindictive in Vaj's post that > I was commenting on, right? He wrote: > > "Truth is there is too much interest in the 'gotcha games' or just > generic 'games' for this to stop. It's an old, old pattern. It's > clear to me, if many posts actually represented stabs at finding > truth or honest inquiry, we'd see some posts which weren't set > ups. Of course there are times when there might be a bone thrown > to keep obsessive chatter goin'. Gotta keep that linear flow. > Heaven forbid context branches or expands or morphs or shifts!" > Well, my view is that Vaj would have been clearer and more effective by chopping off the last half -- or editing it. But He is focused on an idea / content -- "gotcha games". He is not making personal attacks. He is not going for "the kill" -- al la "and therefore person x is an insipid miserable piece of shit". > And in an earlier post you said I seemed "incoherent" And your point in the idea that you were presenting did seem incoherent to me. Thats fair to say -- though I am sure it could be stated more polititely. A gotcha post would try to make the case along the lines that, as an EXAMPLE, "Judy Stein is always incoherent and her ideas should be discarded." > and went on to suggest that I was "steeped in spite, > hate and retribution." While that was not one of my better moments, it appeared to me that is what you had essentially said, and I was restating it. you had said, If there's one thing I detest more than dishonesty, it's hypocrisy." I had equated increasing levels of "detest" with "spite" and "hate" -- and equated "retribution" to your your fairly constant flow personal attacks on those that in your view are being dishonest and hypocritical. I then asked for collective prayers to help you rise above such. > Now, speaking of the subjectivity of evaluation of > tone, you could take what I just wrote as a "gotcha," > OR you could take it as a request for clarification > of your views on appropriate behavior I really don't see how. You said, "That the kind of gotcha game you're talking about, Vaj, where you get caught in a deliberate misrepresentation, er, I mean, an inconsistency?" "(And then pretend not to know that there's an online archive of the posts in question and suggest there's something peculiar about the person who has caught you "saving" all the posts? Did you really think nobody here knew about Google's archive but me and thee?)" "Great fantasy, Vaj. I hope it keeps you warm at night." I don't seeany sincere request for clarifidcation, but a series of snide attacks which appear to purport to show that Vaj is an asshole. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
