What I am interested in is the relationship between the visible and the invisible worlds -- how they interact. I doubt whether that would mean anything to you, but I find it fascinating. Since science does not acknowledge an invisible world, I doubt whether it can be of any help. I am talking about the interactions between humans and all the other beings that inhabit this universe in realms we do not see. Angels act at a distance all the time. Of course, as a fan of science you will think such a statement meaningless or absurd, but I encourage you to keep an open mind. The impression I have at the moment is that your mind is more closed than most.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : You misread me. I said nothing against science. I love the fruits of it, as you put it. But some things lie beyond the scope of science to measure or understand. If it exists it can be measured, or in what way can it be said to be existing? I find it interesting that you seem to think that only scientists can be curious. Hmmm, there's seems to be some sort of inability to read posts thoroughly before replying because I never said anything of the sort. It was you who said you didn't care whether the ME could be measured or not, and that sort of mystery is what gets me interested. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : Salyavin's god, Science, is a very poor god indeed. Oh I don't know, try removing the fruits of science from your life and see how far you'd get. What would you be happy not knowing? Maybe you have no curiousity and aren't aware that your life would return to dark-age misery very quickly. No computers for a start. No decent biology. Medicine. Astronomy. Psychology. It doesn't appeal to me....But it's not a god, it's a way of working out what is from what isn't. God's are usually infallable whereas science is a learning process. I have no doubt that TM creates "action at a distance" because I have experienced it myself on a number of occasions. But how do you know that what you are experiencing really is "action at a distance" and not some form of kiddology or psycho-social effect? I have no interest in whether science is able to measure it or not. Ah, well there you are. I'm ultra curious about everything. If someone is meditating in my house, it creates a calming effect. Just a few months ago, I had a friend here, and unbeknownst to me she was meditating in another room. I was noting the unusual feeling of calm I was experiencing, and then, some minutes later, discovered that she had been meditating. I trust my own experience and do not have to look to science to confirm or deny it. If only the plural of anecdote was data! Science can do great things but it is not the be-all and end-all. It'd be a mightily poor world without it. Just like it was before we developed it actually, when people had to pray for everything and take their chances when they prayers didn't work. We had a long, slow craw away from the age of superstition and the fascinating thing for me is that the internet has become a way of taking us back there with it's endless pages of superstitious ignorance masquerading as valid theory. One thing is certain, science is the best way we have of telling us when we are kidding ourselves. Doesn't it interest you that everyone knows it's humanity's gold standard for assessing knowledge which is why everyone has to have a "scientifically valid" theory these days, usually quantum justifications for this and that nonsense, unified fields etc. If it's so ineffective why do they bother? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Salyavin, I find it rather humorous that you appear to consider yourself a final authority on what science can or cannot prove. Certainly it's a fair statement to say, "we don't have any scientific basis to make such and such a statement", but some of us are not afraid to think a little outside that box, and perhaps more importantly not discount what our experiences may be, "outside that box" With regard to brain waves affecting the environment, it appears to me you are spinning the discussion, and my comments to arrive a pre-arranged conclusion you are comfortable with. Perhaps you don't buy into the notion that our thoughts can affect our environment, or that a person transcending does not have any effect that expands out. I don't know. I am speculating that it does. I can't say to what extent, and I am not defending the Maharishi Effect or saying that it works. But I remain open to that possibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Good nuance. Good comparison. A Caliphate? So the TMO is a social system grounded in ancient literature? Yep, that's a fine comparison. I maintain that brain waves are real and affect one's environment. No one would argue that brain waves are real, but affecting the environment? Not even the TMO is claiming that. Of course they are. No they aren't! They are claiming that they affect the fundamental level of nature not brainwaves, it's their "unified field technology" that they are claiming is affecting your brain, not other people's thoughts. If the brain waves of TM'ers are supposedly more coherent and life supporting (I have doubts about that) then the MMY effect comes (supposedly) into play and effects what others think and do. That is "the environment". We can measure electrical activity in brains easily but you have to attach some sensitive electrodes directly to the scalp to do it. These signals are in the brain, if they could travel outside it would be easy to measure them because we already know the frequencies. All waves, all activity is energy. All energy has force and it could be measured if we had the tools. As long as there is energy there is movement. If radio waves and all sorts of micro waves can be emitted and sent long or short distances through the atmosphere then brain waves are also doing the same thing. Even the beating of ones heart has some ability to be heard and felt outside of the body. I can't help you with your scientific illiteracy. But as your heart can be heard outside of your body a lot easier than your brainwaves can then maybe the Marshy Effect is caused by the slowing down of people's hearts being heard across warzones. Hmm, yes. That makes sense. But we can't and that isn't what they are claiming, the Marshy Effect is supposed to work on some sort of "unified field" that connects all things via our consciousness. Convenient that it seems to be an unmeasurable phenomena, or am I unreasonable in expecting a physical basis to claims for the physical world? Having an effect on a unified field doesn't mean the force, the energy of the brain waves are not somehow hitting outer atmosphere ie being felt outside of the brain and body. Sheesh. Sheesh what? This sentence makes no sense. But it interests me that the TMO publicity machine seems to have had it's way in how it relies on people's ignorance of physics history and understanding of forces and effects. It's their oldest method of working, use a few vaguely familiar sciencey-sounding phrases and use them to piggyback their own beliefs and hope you won't be able to tell the difference. Where we go beyond that, I don't know. I maintain that any body or an object with mass emits waves of some kind. Why on Earth would you want to maintain that? Because he is right, they do. LOL Where we go beyond that, I don't know. And yes, I believe celestial objects fall in to this somewhere. We are free to believe what we like. The TMO are trying to make money by claiming an actual physical effect. Still, I guess your response answers my question about who the letter was aimed at.... You're such a curmudgeon. Why? Someone has to stand up for reality. People like Steve who don't have a grounding in science are the intended recipients of this stuff. They'll bleed him dry if they get the chance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : All you have to do is read the comments at the bottom of the Youtube video to see what people think of it.A sane person would distance themselves from such *nonsense*. I wouldn't be caught dead endorsing yogic flying and the TMO to create world peace. Might pull for it secretly though, kind of like a Muslim secretly pulling for a Caliphate. From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 11:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scientific Solution to Terrorism and War Deaths: TM found to reduce them by 70%! Any idea why they are bothering with this? It doesn't even mention yogic flying so if anyone takes it at face value and does some research, they'll instantly find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyXAB5L3EIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyXAB5L3EIQ And that will be that. Anyone looking still further might wonder why we haven't done it anyway if it works. And then we can say; we have been doing it. And yagyas too! So why doesn't it work? because it just doesn't. There is no action at a distance. None of the research goes anywhere proving that it does. The crime rate in Washington didn't fall any further than it randomly fluctuates over the year anyway, even the editors of the journal that one was published in weren't impressed. And the Lebanon study was even more pointless, does anyone look back at that time and wonder why there was a few fewer deaths than expected when there people meditating in Jerusalem? Of course not, because there wasn't. You can't say that more people would have died if we weren't meditating, how are you going to prove it? There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics If this amazing "technology" caused world peace we'd already have it, aren't there 250,000 meditators in South America now? The crime rate in Washington would have dropped to nothing if yogic flying worked. The war in Lebanon would have stopped. Even if it's as good as the claimed unmeasurable effects, how would that help in Syria? 10% fewer beheadings than last month? Wouldn't that interfere with Saudi Arabian justice a bit? They won't like that. Let's face it, it's a nice idea - one of the best, but if they can't even explain how it might work by any known mechanism let alone demonstrate that it does it's dead in the water. Perhaps that's why this advert is heavy on promises and light on explanation? Fess up guys, if it worked the amount of meditators, yagyas and pundits all over the world would have had us all dancing in the streets by now, but we appear to be stuck with having to come up with actual solutions for problems rather than hoping some stirrings of bliss in some mythical unified field will magically save the world. I convert for evidence, but I aint ever seen none for magic, nor even had it explained how it might work. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dickmays@...> wrote : Published scientific studies show TM and advanced practices reduce war deaths and terrorism by more than 70%. (See the journals and statistics below in the middle column.) http://www.gusp.org/pdf/LetterToWorldLeaders.pdf http://www.gusp.org/pdf/LetterToWorldLeaders.pdf