--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  
> > > > > In a message dated 12/9/05 7:38:45 P.M. Central Standard 
> > Time,  
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > >  Several years ago TMO had considered Fidel Castro the  
> > > > > personification
> > > > > > of the Invincibility principle, or something like  that. 
> It 
> > > was 
> > > > > quite
> > > > > > appropriate given the more than 400, if I  remember 
> > correctly,
> > > > > > assassination attempts against his person  organized by 
> the 
> > > CIA 
> > > > and 
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Miami mafia...
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Too  bad they didn't get him like they did that other mass-
> > > > murderer 
> > > > > Che  Guevara.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Castro is responsible for about 50,000 deaths and 
enslaving 
> > 11  
> > > > > million Cubans.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Could you imagine the out cry had they been successful? 
> > Ramsey  
> > > > Clark could 
> > > > > have jump started his hate America carrier in the early  
> > > sixties! 
> > > > < Castro was 
> > > > > small potatoes compared to Saddam who killed  maybe 2 
> million 
> > > and 
> > > > enslaved 24 
> > > > > million Iraqis under slightly similar  circumstances. 
> However 
> > no 
> > > > Invincibility 
> > > > > awards for Mr. Hussein. Yet  !
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Alot of the anti-Bushies on this forum would just LOVE to 
have 
> > the 
> > > > pre-U.S.-invasion status quo back so that Saddam and his 
> kinder 
> > > > would be free to murder more.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I am very firmly anti-Bush because he is so anti-American. 
> Having 
> > > said that, we sure cherry pick our dictators to get outraged 
> over 
> > > don't we? 
> > > 
> > > There were enough in the collective consciousness of the US 
who, 
> > > following 9/11, resisted their ability to determine why we 
were 
> > > attacked, primarily by Saudi Arabian radicals, and instead 
> decided 
> > > that they were angry, and it was someone's fault in the Middle 
> > East. 
> > > 
> > > The Bushies, wanting to take over Iraq for awhile due to its 
> > > strategic oil value, and to finish a war that Bush the first 
> > began, 
> > > decided Iraq was the target.
> > > 
> > > This high handed crap about removing an oppressive dictator 
and 
> > > setting the Iraqis free is politically self-serving, and 
defames 
> > the 
> > > true ideal of liberty which this country was founded on.
> > >
> > 
> > That oil was a major factor in which dictator we chose to depose 
> is 
> > one I will readily acknowledge.
> > 
> > And what's wrong with that?  I use gas on a daily basis, don't 
you?
> > 
> > So what's so wrong about factoring in that as part of our 
decision-
> > making?
> >
> 
> Nothing is wrong with securing our interests and putting our 
efforts 
> towards that end. 
> 
> And per your last post, maybe people meditating is the answer. It 
> certainly can't hurt.
> 
> However, we have all of this legal, diplomatic and economic 
leverage 
> at our disposal (the US I mean), and it just seems so cynical, 
> inhumane and lazy to me to try it out a little bit whenever 
conflict 
> is brewing, then declare it unworkable, and as long as our 
adversary 
> doesn't have nuclear capability, just say f*ck it and start a war 
on 
> them.



I don't know if you are referring above to the Iraq invasion, but 
how do you feel about the fact that there were no less than 17 U.N. 
resolutions asking Iraq to comply to WMD inspections, all of which 
came about because Iraq was NOT complying?  Yes, as you say above, 
we have alot of diplomatic arsenal at our disposal to use and 
benefit from BEFORE we go to war, but when is time to say "enough is 
enough"?  10 years and 17 resolutions seems, to me, to be WAY more 
than enough.

And, hey, did the U.S. really "just say fuck it and start a war"?  
No, they give such incredibly AMPLE warning.  Iraqis -- and the rest 
of the world for that matter -- KNEW that the U.S. was going to 
invade.  In wasn't in the middle of the night like Germany marching 
into Czechoslovakia or the Soviet Union into Afghanistan.






> 
> Sure there are inefficiencies and lack of coherence and great 
> difficulties in reaching a diplomatic consesus and/or enforcing 
> economic sanctions, but going the extra mile is well worth the 
lives 
> spared. 
> 
> To have created all of our alternatives to war, and then so easily 
> be willing to kill in this supposedly modern age is just such an 
> affront to all of us.



"...so easily be willing to kill...".  Thanks to the wonderful, 
incredible military technology of the United States, the killing of 
civilians were kept to a minimum.




> You spoke of Maharishi earlier. He has a great 
> expression: Whatever you put your attention on, grows. Perhaps if 
we 
> put our attention on cooperation between countries vs more 
military 
> might, it could happen. 
> 
> And I don't have my head in the sand. Some of our adversaries 
> probably need to be treated like very recalcitrant children. So be 
> it. But let's stop this karmic building cycle of killing our 
> enemies. Even before utopia happens.
>






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