--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > > > > > enlightenment does not adhere > > > > to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period. > > > > > > I've been given to understand that enlightenment > > > changes quite a bit from one spiritual tradition to > > > another. I'm told, for instance, that Buddhists > > > disagree with Hindus on key points, and when > > > their adherents attain end states they call awakening > > > or enlightenment, the attainees describe their > > > experiences differently from one another but > > > consistent with their traditions. > > > > > > Native Americans have no such states in their > > > traditions, suggesting enlightenment is not > > > something that all traditions recognize. > > > > > > View determines fruit, as Vaj quoted a master > > > as saying. Or as Dana Sawyer says, precept > > > determines percept. > > > > > > I'm not sure if I'm disagreeeing with you here, Jim. > > > I don't know enough about either side of the discussion. > > > I'm simply expressing some cognitive dissonance with > > > the statement that enlightenment does not adhere to > > > any tradition. > > > > > Uh-oh, I see another Paradox! Just ample warning for those that wish > > to read no further... > > > > Spiritual traditions are all useful, and thank God there are a lot > > of them, to serve us all in such diversity. > > > > What I meant by my remark was that once enlightenment is reached, > > the spiritual tradition we have followed loses its uniqueness, and > > in some ways much of its value; an enlightened Buddhist shares the > > same view as an enlightened Hindu or Sufi or whatever.
When I was a TM teacher, and for a few years after that, I said the same thing. Then I asked, "Do I really know what I am talking about here, or am I just parroting unsubstantiated dogma I have heard?" I quickly realized it was the latter. With some reading and reaserch, talking to others, I found there are quite large differences in views of different traditions and religions -- and representative saint's reports of states theyhave obtained. But I am not a scholar. Most scholars I have read or talked to, who devote their lives to the topic, find differences not sameness. Parroting dogma is a mental handicap. It can be overcome. > > Says who? Your intuition? Precisely which enlightened Buddhists, > Hindus and Sufis did you talk to regarding this. Or are you just > spouting off platitudes that sound good. > > > > Oddly enough, once enlightenment blossoms, all of the ways of all of the spiritual traditions become accessible, > > And you are quite familiar with all the ways of all the spiritual > traditions? Again, it sounds like feel-good platitudes, nothing > actually based on studying such traditions and talking to their > proponents. Tell us about the aghori and nath practices you have > accessed since becoming self-proclaimed enlightened? > > > so that we gain a much > > stronger intuitive appreciation of all of the traditions, and can > > enjoy them as we wish. > > Sounds like a MUM first year student doing sing-song. Yup, reading right off some big colorful chart. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
