Sal, what you are saying was narrowly true not necessarily about spirituality 
but more specifically within TM community culture. 
 Actually, the last couple of years has seen an evolution/Revolution of the 
mental health policy of TM to where now the practice of  ™ no longer solves all 
problems, and that as people may experience mental health breaks folks are now 
directed to actively seek 'best practices' of modern scientific professional 
mental health practitioners.  As much as some critics are quite certain the 
movement will never change, the movement did change in fundamental ways on 
  Even now the movement .org is still working on the mechanisms of support and 
implementation of this.  There is a lot of concern about all of this out of a 
real concern and compassion for people and how to better get it.   
 There was quite an about-face on mental health coming from the highest levels 
on this.  In some really deep empathy and compassion there was a lot of time 
and conscious thought put into integrating where meditation practice (™) sits 
within what is now developing as the larger (scientific)  field of integrative 
medicine.  Meditation is a relative bit player in that.  
 You can see the ™ mental health policy is within this university page on 
mental illness.  Take an active look at it ..

 Other people worked directly on it but I have been in a whole lot of meetings 
the last couple of years on this whole topic and can admire the work that was 
done on this thus far to get it.  JaiGuruDev.

 Interestingly, in modern mental health practice even the AMA has become more 
integrative in its best practices including prescriptive recommendations for a 
balance of meditation along with counseling, allopathic medical, and healthy 
conscious eating and circadian active living in remedy. The total person.  
 The TM movement’s mental health policy was likewise brought up recently to be 
science-based integrative too.  Was remarkable to see this grasped by the new 
TM movement and brought into modern TM movement policy incorporating the range 
of best practices. Culture and policy changes intertwined in time..

 Understanding Mental Illness and Treatment


---In, <> wrote :

 FWIW, they’ve tried “spiritual” solutions to young kids having problems at the 
MSAE, and the result has been utter disaster, with the list of mental issues 
and suicides long.  Much longer than from the regular HS, which has a lot more 

 The opportunity for abuse of these kids and of minimization of the issues 
they’re dealing with is huge.  They’ve now, I understand, make more traditional 
solutions available, but I’m sure much of the stigma is still there.  

 The people pushing “spiritual” solutions seem to be utterly clueless, 
sometimes willfully so.  A few of them don’t even have kids themselves, have no 
idea of what teenage/young adult issues can entail, with almost any kid, and 
how best to handle it.  “Just meditate” is   like a real slap in the face and a 
mockery of what mediation can do, and it isn’t a substitute for talk therapy or 
just simply talk.

 I see some of these administrators (or former admins) who were in charge when 
many of the kids who later killed themselves were in school, still walking 
around like self-important big-shots.  


On Sep 23, 2016, at 7:35 AM, [FairfieldLife] <> wrote:

Not sure if this related to what you are referring to, but mainstream 
psychology is, I believe, completely clueless about spiritual experiences, and 
spiritual development, and how they may pertain to "issues" one might be 

 Just another reason why it would help to help to have a support group, or a 
professional who is more dialed in to that area of life.

 But, but, as a practical matter, and especially in a university setting, 
anyone who is having any sort of issue along these lines, i.e. mental 
instability would best be advised to seek the prevailing treatments, both 
because they can work in many cases, and for matters of liability.

 Spiritual solutions remain more in the realm of mystery, and rely more on one 
sorting things out oneself, or as I said, with the benefit of a teacher, or 
others who have tread that path. 


<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 Yes, as breath is also intimate to the heart and subtle system it seems that 
working on alignment of these subtle energy systems of the spiritual nervous 
system is a lot of where so many of the meditating community have gone on to.  
 I have been going to these planning meetings with various movement people and 
it is pretty clear that some of those still narrowly vested in the strict ™ 
consciousness paradigm  don’t really get where people have gone in their 
spiritual experience.  More recently with the opening up of mental health 
policy inside TM, some clinical thinkers are moving to the direction of 
‘integral’ medicine but that only goes to incorporating cognitive modality as 
their means of getting to the heart of spiritual problems.  That is okay as one 
modality. The communal satsang of the old meditating community evidently has 
cultivated other experience with it.      


<steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 I am predicting that breath, or prana will at some point, become a focus of 
western medicine. Probably before interest in something like energy centers 
takes hold. 
 The Upanishads, in particular, talk about the different breaths, and the 
functions they perform.  Breath may be something people can understand better 
than say, chakras. 

 Another area which has little or no public awareness is that of sexual energy, 
and how it pertains to overall health and mental acuity, at least as I see it.

<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 M stopped talking much about it publicly at points when faced with an 
intellectual skepticism about these energy centers:  ‘Thin lines of energy 
flowing in the central nervous system? ’ Where exactly?  

 Comparing to the science then at that time growing on 'consciousness' defined 
by meditation then to also describe and defend a subtle system which science 
has yet to be able to even image would be daunting at best given where people 
and science was at in time.  But clearly it was where he was going in his 
teachings and methods even to his last techniques in marma, vibrational 
modalities and the Ved and Physiology practice.  The guy was a visionary, sage, 
empiricist and necessarily practical going forward. We don't have so much 
guidance coming out of TM about it other than ideas of stress release and 
meditation checking so people over the years have also gone on in their 

<steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 Yes, thanks for the reply.  I do believe that spiritual development is a 
tricky endeavor, and that complications can arise, either due to an awakening 
of kundalini, or just an expanding of awareness.  I suppose it is helpful to 
have a support network to help sort things out, and lend a helping hand if 

 Of course, like anything, you can carried away by too much analysis, which can 
lead to mood making and other weird diversions .  Always difficult to find the 
right balance.

 Still sorting that out in my own life 

<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 Yep, regardless of which meditation or spiritual practice some people can have 
trouble with kundalini flow (subtle energy centers) as their spirituality comes 
on or grows.  Evidently it is not by meditation necessarily but also occurs 
separately for some various people as kundalini development in the central 
subtle nervous system. Able to surface at any point as the spiritual system may 
grow, sometimes in the new spiritual aspirant or in long practiced or 
cultivated people.  This as its own continuum is different from the 
consciousness ‘awakening’ continuum that gets focused on in the TM community or 
at Rick’s batgap, but can have its own development to talk about on continuum 
different than consciousness development.
 In satsang around Fairfield, Iowa people can surface periodically with 
troubles in the flow of their Kundalini subtle system.  This is particularly 
different than say psychological breaks like bi-polar and such.  
 It was not something we were much guided in but there is a cohort of intuitive 
people and experienced people round who can be helpful to folks whose subtle 
systems are in rough times and not integrated enough in some ways to be easier 
with being a conduit for evidently more primordial energy referred to as 
kundalini, or the holy-ghost in x-ianity.  It can be a topic of conversation 
around Fairfield on different levels.          


<steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 an particulars in this regard?

<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 In TM we did not get much guidance on this but those are interesting sutras to 
 My wife in community work as an RN, being intuitive, and being an old 
meditation teacher has been running into some people who are amidst some 
openings of kundalini. That has its spiritual reality for some people which in 
some ways is also physiologic to the human psycho-spiritual system. . 
 Card’s sequence of sutras as energy centers that are in the YS may well be 
relevant. Also it seems was where Maharishi was going with his last technique, 
the Ved and Physiology technique. The sutras like that Ved and Physiology 
process can be handy to energetically reference;  along with some kind of 
mindful intent like these kind of directives in the yoga sutras in checking of 
the flow for some people in their mists and rough with it all.  Some things 
sort of like in point 30 of the old checking notes, if you remember those. 

 Going to these YS chapters and verse are like going back to reading my tractor 
repair manual for figuring out my tractor’s ignition system that just went 
haywire. 10th cranial nerve?  Sometimes you just have to go sit and attend to 
it under a shade tree.  But figure it out also by going to an old tractor 
mechanic who has more experience with it.           


ultrarishi offers: You might be interested in the work of Stephen Porges and 
his Polyvagal Theory.

<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :


 "..the physiological counterpart of kuurma-naaDii might well be the vagus 
nerve, which is the main parasympathetic nerve,"


 In the human, who is the highest expression of God on earth, it is the vagus 
or tenth cranial nerve that is the most receptive to this solar fire or energy, 
the spiritual fire coming down, the fire of the macrocosm. This fire energizes 
humans and uses them to express the qualities of love and wisdom.
 =Charlie Lutes

<hepa7@...> wrote :


 Number 5, at least in my set (English: BT?), is the one that seems to 
correspond YS III 31:

 kuurma-naaDyaaM* sthairyam.

 Some translations:

 kUrmanaaDyaaM sthairyam
Calmness Is Attained By Samyama On The Bronchial Tube.
 [IT]: (32):
 (By performing Samyama) on the Kurma-nadi steadiness.
On the tortoise duct (tortoise), steadiness.
From perfect discipline of the “tortoise vein,” one’s being becomes steady.
 [SS]: (32):
 By samyama on the kurma nadi (a subtle tortoise-shaped tube located below the 
throat), motionless in the meditative posture is achieved.
(32) By making samyama on the tube within the chest, one acquires absolute 
 [SV]: (32):

 On the nerve called Kurma (comes) fixity of the body.
 I used to think that the "oiling" of joints, less tight muscles and harder 
*rections after doing siddhis was mainly due to flying, but now it seems to me 
the main culprit might well be actually the BT above, after doing it a couple 
of times in isolation, or whatever.
 It seems to me the physiological counterpart of kuurma-naaDii might well be 
the vagus nerve, which is the main parasympathetic nerve, I believe. Wiki:
  The parasympathetic system is responsible for stimulation of 
"rest-and-digest" or "feed and breed"[2] 
activities that occur when the body is at rest, especially after eating, 
including sexual arousal, 
salivation, lacrimation (tears), urination, digestion and defecation Its action is described as being 
complementary to that of the sympathetic nervous system, which is responsible 
for stimulating activities associated with the fight-or-flight response

  (Sorry for my inaccurate wording. As I've told before, I'm a "grammarian", 
certainly not a "semantician"!)

 * locative (in, at, on, into, etc) singular from naaDii



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