Well yes, on the one hand the social science research empirically shows that something happens when people meditate. That is becoming beyond doubt now except by some science-deniers who maybe don’t understand science or refuse to understand it. Though as you say, the science does not show the ‘how’ it happens’. Objectively people know their own experience with it and conduct their own science accordingly. But you are right that science science has not physically got their fingers yet on the ‘how’. A month ago Dr. Hagelin gave a really interesting ‘spiritual’ talk on the ‘how’ it happens. The nature of the shakti or the field that can be in the human system and the ‘how’ that happens. There is a guy visiting right now in Fairfield this week giving satsang on this with being a pervasive field effect of light, love, and shakti. This is palpable and then the tools of science research will probably catch up on that in time. Science people are thinking about this very study problem and scratching their heads wondering particularly about this as you are here.
yifuxero writes: Re "not the replicating studies of recent times" This statement is problematic since whether from long ago or recent times, the TMO has not shown that subtle energies operating in the ME (Shakti) can be measured at all. While it's true that certain people with psychic abilities (e.g. in the past, Leadbeater and at present, John Douglas), even these experiences are subjective and the property of rare individuals. Either the Shakti can a. not be measured at all b. can be cognized but not quantified or c. can be measured and quantified with a matchine. None of these cases applies since assuming Hagelin is behind most of the claims for the ME, his statement on Batgap as to psychic abilities shows that he's not particularly adept in that regard So, if neither Hagelin or the other Administrators have any special psychic powers, and they haven't yet discovered a machine that can measure the Shakti, then: there are no alternatives and the claims as to ME are wildly speculative and without a scientific basis. As to statistical replication, one must eliminate all other possible Shakti effects as candidates. The research on the physiological effects of TM is in a separate category and has its own faults, chiefly the failure to compare the results with experienced Mindfulness practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : People ‘claim’ things like: One: “..the movement's confirmation-bias tainted research”. Confirmation-bias may be a fault of some of the earlier research but evidently not of the replicating studies done in more recent times. That there might have been some confirmation bias in some of the research does not invalidate all the science published on meditating. There is a lot of discussion and rebuttal about this for open minds to consider at TruthaboutTM.org Two: “..Maharishi did not even really know if this coherence effect would really work, as it seemed to be based on a rather loose association of a statement by Patanjali with a coherence effect in physics.” The process of science includes taking observation, making hypothesis about observations and then testing the hypothesis. Maharishi was at that the whole time in process from very early on when he left India to go out and teach meditation until his final days. Throughout his long career he would use the large facility of the ™ movement to advance science by this process of from observation making, to hypothesis and testing it. This was large thinking of an inquiring mind. The disgruntled and disaffected may feel and gripe otherwise about him for their own reasons but what he did in persistence at advancing broadly the science on meditation in the last half of the 20th Century and into the 21St Century was monumental in its developmental way. Developmental like with Copernicus observing: Although Copernicus' model changed the layout of the universe, it still had its faults. For one thing, Copernicus held to the classical idea that the planets traveled in perfect circles. It wasn't until the 1600s that Johannes Kepler https://www.space.com/15787-johannes-kepler.html proposed the orbits were instead ellipses. As such, Copernicus' model featured the same epicycles that marred in Ptolemy's earlier work, although there were fewer. Copernicus' ideas, published only two months before he died, took nearly a hundred years to seriously take hold. When Galileo Galilei https://www.space.com/15589-galileo-galilei.html claimed in 1632 that Earth orbited the sun, building upon the Polish astronomer's work, he found himself under house arrest for committing heresy against the Catholic church. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : At start of Summer 2017 now, within this circumstance of consequence with the collapse of the Dome numbers meditating it is terrible that the TM Trustees, Raja and their apparatchiks had let it get so bad with the Dome numbers. It is like the very people in charge who, standing in the way holding sway, don’t themselves believe the best of science (even their own!) now published on this. ..there are bodies of studies now authored, collaboratively with other reputable universities and institutions, and conducted independent of the .org, published studies that have extremely high statistical p values and then also aggregated high p values studies, replicated too that correlate the effects of meditating. Gold standard stuff. So the premise is that at a point the plain truth of such a series of extremely extraordinarily high p value published studies in the aggregate simply becomes statistical truth. A type of fact. What they correlate becomes fair ‘rule of thumb’. Unless of course as people may be anti-science or don’t understand science this way they may not grok what is completely current in the cutting edge of knowledge. This does not deny that there was bad or poorly designed or poorly performed science on meditation that went before. However, a sheer weight of the best of science is plainly correlating that it is a statistical truth now and quite fair rule of thumb that meditating has benefits that go with its practice. QED. Hagelin's Premise, A premise large in assertion and direction like a Monroe Doctrine, The Marshall Plan or the Meissner-like Maharishi Effect, now as matter of statistical fact: It is time to rally to meditation by all that the best of modern science tells us is statistical truth and by what we know more objectively in our experience as quite fair rule of thumb. It is quite time now to come together in collective meditation for all that is good. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : In renewed social critique, with the dislocations in society from rapid technological changes like in the ‘social question’ of the 19th Century renewed, is there alternative here to so much of what is in this postmodern time period’s spiritual agitation and conflict-making, like taking a fresh alternative towards looking to the science of radical peace-making? Is it come time for something radical, like a making of peace, going up in magnitude to a much larger scale? To go much higher than 1 percent, 5 in 100, much higher than the square root of one percent of a group meditating. Is it come time now for new critique and something more. In experience Transcendentalism has always been the critique to materialism that has gone out of perspective. Given the stakes, it would seem in the modern now it is time for revolutionary transforming transcendent meditationist action everywhere. QED. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : We are grateful to all those who came answering the call and sat up in their meditations with us in Fairfield, Iowa. It has been our honor to have had those who traveled from distant places join alongside us here in collective meditation in these times. From time in memorium this is called the work of moral courage where people, deeper spiritual people [transcendentalists] do this, come in to groups meditating together for something larger. -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Yes. It would be far better for you look at the webpage of http://www.truthabouttm.org/ http://www.truthabouttm.org/ towards engaging a much higher level of understanding of these things. I only know my objective experience with it all which I find statistically certain in many replicable ways for myself. -JaiGuruYou yifux...@yahoo.com> wrote : Thx,....statements like this should be put into a proper perspective. As to the Hagelin Premise where he basically says that peace follows from the ME which is "peer reviewed" and supported by "statistics"; which "peers" is he talking about, and who collected the stats. If Dr. Hagelin is reading this, kindly provide the reference(s) on the peer reviewed journals, if any. .. If you're reading this, Dr. Hagelin, feel free to jump in and rebut. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Waging radical peace... Hagelin's Premise.. Peer-reviewed, published, replicated, honest-to-goodness, gold-standard scientific research leads us to make this heartfelt request of you: Come and join us for meditation in Fairfield, Iowa for this post-election period of time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Discourses at the Ammachi darshans in Detroit this week were a lot about making a connection of cultivating/gaining spiritual strength from spiritual practices along with compassionate humanitarianism, as you say. Light in the body, feet on the ground. "Do the work." Yifuxero writes: Thx, the case of a connection between Transcendence and compassionate humanitarianism, perhaps can be undermined or even dismissed from a Neo-Advaitic viewpoint by saying that Transcendence alone does not imply any particular action. However, recent research coming from several areas does indeed bolster the connection between Transcendence (if done by enough people) and Global Peace.; but I must object to the idea that MMY made those connections. The new argument can be bolstered by merging 3 sources: 1. Sam Harris, 2. The polyvagal axis theory, and 3. the brain's production of Oxytocin, which is part of (2). First, from Neurophysiologist Harris: (a reasoned hypothesis) That silent medication may lead to increased awareness which leads to Empathy for others (an ability to feel what others are feeling, in some way). Finally, the increased ability to Empathize leads to what the Buddhists call Compassion (related to the love concept but slightly different). 2. Second, the Polyvagal axis, already covered on this forum. Thx Doug for introducing this to the forum.. 3. The measurement of Oxytocin output after the subject engages in various experimental activities. Oxytocin is the body's "Love molecule". For example, petting animals might stimulate hormone. High up on the list of activities that generate an Oxy response is Compassionate meditation: (silent meditation coupled with a feeling of Compassion). Therefore the missing ingredient not emphasized by MMY to any great extent is Compassion. Shalom Aleichem ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Yes, the Domes in Fairfield quite evidently are activating places spiritually too like these places are for an individual or collective. There certainly is a reality to that. Like sitting in gathered Quaker meetings meditating In effect wages peace as place more profoundly founded in what is a silence of their spiritual processes. Waging Peace now given these agitated and divided times, the imperative seems to rise as we come to know more. This becomes like a duty. Duty for those who know how to pursue and wage radical peace spiritually. To the call..to help, -JaiGuruYou Yifuxero writes: On the topic of group vs solitary meditation, having meditated in Charlie Lutes' group, the Shakti was quote powerful, but so was meditating alone in the SIMS initiation rooms. But positively the MOST powerful Shakti site I've been in was the Ramakrishna Vedanta Temple in Hollywood, CA. Thx Jim, another great essay on your part that I agree with. I've come up with a hypothesis that moral values (as a set of ethics, a major branch of philosophy), can ultimately be derived from Game Theory. Some of the results can be duplicated with a computer, but given the limited power of computers, we would have to speculate on an overall conclusion with large numbers of people.. Take tribal behavior. There's an optimum population which gives rise to a cohesive tribe (I believe it's approximately 150 people). Too little, and the members can't come together to formulate (not consciously), game-theoretic rules which enhance tribal survival. Division of labor for example. With too many people, the tribe may break off into sects that ultimately war against each other. The more simplistic outcomes can be programmed using game theory, matching what we observe. On the topic of Transcendence, I've come up with a new Koan: "Before Enlightenment, an asshole chopping wood and carrying water. After Enlightenment, as asshole chopping wood and carrying water". Thijs doesn't apply to you. I'm thinking of people like Adi Da, but that's a judgment on my part. On the topic of group vs solitary meditation, having meditated in Charlie Lutes' group, the Shakti was quote powerful, but so was meditating alone in the SIMS initiation rooms. But positively the MOST powerful Shakti site I've been in was the Ramakrishna Vedanta Temple in Hollywood, CA. Shalom Aleichem From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Call to Spiritual Order,Rally Now to Meditation! Waging Peace. Meditators! It is time for Waging Radical Peace, in groups meditating, this call now to meditation is like A Moral Equivalence of War. Paraphrased, what William James would say to meditators today: ..Meditators, this meditation against war is going to be no holiday excursion or camping party. The post-election feelings of division are too deeply grounded to abdicate their place until better ideals as substitutes are offered than the glory and shame that come to people and nations by politics and vicissitudes of trade and commerce in making war. It is time, for A Call to a (William James') Moral Equivalence of War: a radical modern peace-making in meditation. Non-pacifists, James posits, are dismissive of the pacifist position because they imagine that in the absence of war and the inevitable subsequent atrophying of the military institution, the nation would dissolve into a porridge of decadent, feminine milquetoasts with no sense of noble sacrifice or ideals worth struggling for. By the positive virtues of war, James doesn’t mean the potential gains of military victory: vanquishing a threatening enemy, claiming the spoils, striking fear into other rivals, that sort of thing. He means the way war strengthens attributes of the individual characters of the people (that is to say: men) who take part in it — fortitude, endurance, courage, heartiness, and other such things — and of the civic character of the nations that go to war — pride, selfless collective effort, patriotic obedience, that sort of stuff. - https://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=06Mar11 https://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=06Mar11 .. Scott Ritter’s Waging Peace https://sniggle.net/TPL/index.php?entry=15Nov07 ..thought the peace movement ought to organize itself along military lines and get down to brass tacks. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : We are most grateful to all those who came answering the call and sat up in their meditations with us in Fairfield, Iowa. It has been our honor to have had those who traveled from distant places joining alongside us here in collective meditation in these times. -JaiGuruYou Those of you that have been going to the Domes recently will be aware that many of our friends from across the country have joined us here in Fairfield over the last week or so, and they have helped boost the overall attendance in evening program to over 750 people. If you aren't able to attend any of the official flying halls, please try to do group program together with friends in 2s, 3s, 4s, etc., whatever is convenient, and aim to start your yogic flying practice at the official CST times of 8:15 am and 5:45 pm. Jai Guru Dev Raja John Hagelin and the Ideal Community Group Bhairitu writes: I think Doug is lost in the nostalgia of early 1970s TM which ended when the "self appointed" purity gestapo returned from AofE courses. On 11/16/2016 11:01 AM, upfronter mailto:upfron...@ymail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, forgive this voicing of a different viewpoint, but this one's personal opinion is that one genuine disciplined meditator meditating regularly amongst 100 non-meditators is more effective in society than 100 meditators meditating amongst themselves - although there is certainly a beneficial social family aspect which cannot be denied from similar association on such a deep level. Besides, I personally have a different spiritual philosophy to that expounded by Maharishi, one which differs in certain fundamental aspects, it would seem, one which touches both my heart and mind deeply in a manner that leaves no room for the grafting of branches from other trees. I’m not sure I could listen to too much coffee-shop conversation without suggesting the smelling of stronger coffee all round. Jai Guru Dev. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : FW: e-mail response, Try to meditate in groups with a grateful heart. Remember all that TM has given you- is giving you, the countless blessings, and return your gratitude to the source. Gratitude and praise open a channel for support of nature to come to you. Listen to and read what Maharishi said about the Maharishi Effect. A full commitment by individuals who gather in groups is all that it takes. Future generations will be so grateful when they learn about you--what you did for them, this world, the future. And that includes the sacrifices you made moving to Fairfield remaining true to your convictions and to the tradition from which the knowledge came. Jai Guru Dev, ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <archonan...@yahoo.com> wrote : Quite a few of my friends meditate, and some are teachers, but most of us live far from Fairfield, IA.