I agree with much that you say here—the Pope is posing reform—to church tradition, policy, and to the flock's way of considering doctrine and belief.
You never answered my question re: whether you think this rises to the level of the Reformation. What do you think? In terms of ways it does and ways it doesn't? Being raised Catholic (which I assume you were), you have an inside understanding perhaps? Do you think the Pope will abide by the challenge/consensus of this group of cardinals out of 228 cardinals? I am sure there are more that disagree with where he is going, however I disagree with you on this. We don't know what the flock thinks and I tend to believe that there is a good number that is in full support of reform and is not abiding already with some of the stricter rules. This Pope is on a mission. He won't resign. Will he succeed in his challenge to the archaic rules of Communion, etc? Maybe not in his lifetime, but he is setting the stage. Do you really think that he should concede to the cardinals with the platitude that the "will of the Holy Spirit" has been done? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote : Emily, The cardinals who were opposing the Pope Francis reforms posed several questions or "dubia" to the pope about the faith doctrines that were potentially violated from the letter "Amoris Laetitia". But the pope did not answer these questions, or more likely ignored them. But the pope did release an explanation to the media explaining his rationale in Amoris, which is based on conscience. IMO, the press and Catholics around the world will have to ponder how this factor will affect them individually and as a part of the church. In effect, Pope Francis has made everyone think. Will they be the first one to cast the stone against the people addressed in the letter Amoris? Will the church stay with the written doctrines and tradition of the past? or will they have to consider their own individual conscience to answer the questions about divorced Catholics and gay marriages? Pope Francis is asking a very thorny question which involve a personal question to each member of the faith to answer. It may take a while for the final answer to come back. And, the answer will seal the faith and practice of Catholics for years to come. IMO, Pope Francis will abide by the consensus of the cardinals and will be happy to retire knowing that he did the will of the Holy Spirit through the votes of the cardinals and the faithful whom they represent. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emily.mae50@...> wrote : There are an estimated ____ Roman Catholics, 40% of which are in Latin America. "By writing a letter – and then making it public – did the four believe that they would corner Francis and get the answer they wanted? It is unlikely that he feels cornered. The four cardinals have now placed themselves in a rather difficult position. They are but four cardinals out of 228 from 79 countries. They are not a majority by any stretch of the imagination. Francis is from the global south; the four cardinals are from the north. Francis has a specific experience and approach that is not always understood in the north. The socio-economic and political situations in Latin America have shaped the way this pope thinks. He worked as a bishop – at the coal face – for 21 years. He understands the problems and struggles of people in the Third World. His refusal to see the world in black and white is precisely because of his experience of life. The four writers are all from affluent places and cultures and certainly would not have the same experience as Francis on the ground. The biggest challenge facing Pope Francis appears not to be the 1.2-billion Catholics he leads. His biggest challenge comes from his so-called “middle-management” – bishops and cardinals who just do not buy into his new vision of a Catholic Church that is welcoming and inclusive. Pope Francis, however, while he remains head of the Catholic Church, will continue to introduce the reforms the cardinals wanted when they elected him. Maybe they did not realize that they too would be part of the reform. " ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Doug, Pope Francis is apparently stirring the pot for Catholics. He's saying that staid tradition and past church rules are not the sure bet to get salvation in the church. He has delivered his message to the youth of the church, when he first became the top prelate a few years ago.. And that was to make a real mess of the church. -- jr Wow, the Pope is a Quaker! Francis told the conference that priests must inform Catholic consciences “but not replace them.” And he stressed the distinction between one’s conscience — where God reveals himself — and one’s ego that thinks it can do as it pleases. We have a similar problem with TM conservatives sitting on old policy while much of the congregation of the old TM movement has voted with its feet leaving a small geriatric group with the dimishing assets of what was the TM movement. Pope Francis (John Hagelin in TM's case?) on Saturday reaffirmed the “primacy” of using one’s conscience to navigate tough moral questions in his first comments since he was publicly accused of spreading heresy by emphasizing conscience over hard and fast Catholic rules. Vipers are left fighting at the top. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote : relating to heresy. It looks like the Pope is holding his line to argue against the conservatives in his church. In the end, the individual may have a good basis to challenge church doctrine... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/pope-reaffirms-conscience-as-heresy-debate-divides-church/2017/11/11/1c92e674-c6fa-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.57ca0d4f1d22 https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/pope-reaffirms-conscience-as-heresy-debate-divides-church/2017/11/11/1c92e674-c6fa-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.57ca0d4f1d22