.. Charisma and shakti classically are not taught as the same thing. Charisma being more of the personality in faculties and shakti a life force itself.
Something I find interesting in this academic introduction further below is the attempt to introduce for academicians the aspect of shakti as primordial into the consideration of charisma, separate from personality features. .."Pure charisma thus is personal and is based on face-to-face contact and feelings of trust, duty, and love on the part of the followers (Schweitzer 1984, 33). It is creative and revolutionary, for "in its pure form charisma . . . may be said to exist only in the process of originating" (Weber 1964, 364). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Shakti, What are they doing for good with it? On a ‘shaktic scale’ different spiritual people evidently have different capacity to help transform others in their spiritual life. And then there are the ones we call ‘saints’ for their transforming capacity. In the old Quaker practice of silent meditative meetings some individual old Friends whose presence ‘settled’ the silence of the group meditative Quaker meetings were known as “Weighty Friends” for their field effect of shakti on others. And then the scope of shakti transmission in someone living like Ammachi helps one consider the possibilities of homo sapien. A 'shaktic' or spiritual experience scale different from beliefs, enthusiasm, or faith in a doctrine. 'Shaktic' possibly as a word for scale of actual spiritual experience. Shakti as a word for a spiritual energy or field experienced directly. -Graphing, Spiritual Experience with Millennial-ism https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/communal-studies-forum/BVT5Okg_nfc https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/communal-studies-forum/BVT5Okg_nfc ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : Shakti, ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : "In using charisma to explain social change and heroic leaders, Weber did not intend merely to invent a dry academic term. Rather, he saw charisma as representing the incarnate life force itself, "the thrust of the sap in the tree and the blood in the veins," an elemental or daemonic power (Dow 1978)." -Prophetic Charisma.. Intro. Book Review: Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation for the Castaneda Phenomenon http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/prophetic_charisma_psychological_explanation%20part1.htm http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/prophetic_charisma_psychological_explanation%20part1.htm Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation f... http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/prophetic_charisma_psychological_explanation%20part1.htm Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation for the 'Castaneda Phenomenon' Introduction by Corey Donovan View on sustainedaction.org http://sustainedaction.org/Explorations/prophetic_charisma_psychological_explanation%20part1.htm Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : What of charisma, spiritually? Where is TM with charisma? Evidently it would seem that TM's charisma is now "dispersed and routinized, ..and not necessarily as great a force for social change," .. 'routinized', by this way of thinking: Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalities (1997) by Len Oakes Introduction by Corey Donovan What is this thing called charisma? [T]he idea of a divinely inspired power or talent is as old as mankind. The oldest surviving work of fiction, the Epic of Gilgamesh, tells of a warrior-king, part god and part man, who quests for the secret of eternal life. He has many adventures in the lands of the gods, and even attains that which he seeks, only to have it torn from his grasp at the last moment. He returns home convinced of the futility of his quest and knowing that "the central fact of my life is my death" (Kopp 1972, 31; Heidel 1968). The word "charisma" comes from the name of the Greek goddess Charis, who personified grace, beauty, purity, and altruism. Possession of these faculties came to be known as charisma. [Footnote: The Greek word is charizesthai, and it means favor or gift of divine origin. The Greeks do not seem to have associated this with the kind of demagogic and irrational leadership of which Plato wrote in his Gorgias, although they were well aware of the rhapsodic "Dionysian" aspect of life; Plato was a member of the Elysian mystery cult. For Aristotle the megalopsychos was the great man who dares to live alone in secret worship of his own soul. The Romans called the hero’s charismatic power facilitas and believed it was derived from the gods.] Later usages derive from St. Paul, who saw it as a gift of grace from God: "To one there is given through the spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy" (1 Corinthians 12:8-10). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote : charisma? There are scholarly teachers, gurus who teach technique, and saints who give help and can directly transform people. With any one or in combination (scholars, gurus, saints) then what is the experience of charisma and where is the TMO now with charisma? Charisma evidently can fluctuate in time in people and movements. What is charisma? One author (Oakes) talks about 'prophetic charisma', on a different continuum than what we may see as narcissism, or narcissistic personalities and disorders. "Pure charisma thus is personal and is based on face-to-face contact and feelings of trust, duty, and love on the part of the followers (Schweitzer 1984, 33). It is creative and revolutionary, for "in its pure form charisma . . . may be said to exist only in the process of originating" (Weber 1964, 364). At the other end of the continuum, routinized charisma describes what happens when a leader’s charisma is thinly dispersed throughout the followers who act in the leader’s name, typically after he has died. It may survive many generations and underlie a stable social order, but it is conservative and is not a force for social change (Miyahara 1983, 370)." ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesed...@yahoo.com> wrote : Nine years on, I'd exhale if I were them.:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Ollie, yours seems a fair critique of the situation here by comparison. The True-believers of the TM meditating community are hopeful that Dr. Nader is that person though he is not too available to be experienced or quoted unless you have the money to be on courses with him. Those who have been with him seem to ‘like’ him. It remains to be more widely seen what the ‘nature’ of his charisma is in leadership going forward. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : True, the spectrum of consciousness available through TM and TMSP is complete, spanning the transcendental states of consciousness, and bringing one to Brahman. None of these other programs cover such a range, though they can be helpful in offering a new, partial perspective on the journey. The kicker with the TMO is there is no one living in Brahman heading the organization, so that these other programs are seen in opposition, and as threats, instead of seeing them as a partial picture, with the complete definition of the growth of consciousness always available through the techniques, and associated documents, and media of the TM program and TMSP. Without someone new at the top to put this into perspective, Maharishi's teachings are the only fallback, with the consequence of the TMO becoming less relevant and increasingly conservative. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Fairfield has a lot of active long going satsanga groups. The Oneness group has been on the ascendent in Fairfield for sometime in more recent years. AOL is active still. Waking Down, the wavicle group, The meditator churches are vibrant too. In a strict interpretation, these meetings should not be attended by TM teachers. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : Yes, it evidently was a spiritually attuned meeting of a lot of old TM teachers in Fairfield, Iowa. The guy came to Fairfield through the Oneness group. Apparently the mantras were very well sung with good effect. Was yet another spiritually powerful meeting of Fairfield. Lot of our old TM community here was there in the audience listening/meditating with it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : Good - whatever it takes. ;-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote : ...sounds like the "Krishna Das" aberration. A billion Indians, and everyone wants to listen to a guy from Long Island instead. Like when they used to make the cowboy westerns and all the Native American parts were played by white actors from LA and NYC. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : The original post seems a good reminder about the vibratory nature of mantras. There was a guy touring here to Fairfield tonight singing these mantras in a program downtown attended by quite a full crowd of TM teachers meditating along with the singing of these mantras. The TM teachers, many of them being re-cert TM teachers or old TM teachers who are being paid to be on the IA grant in the Dome did not themselves seem ‘confused’ by such spiritual practice as the current Dome badge guidelines for being in the Dome meditation would assert. [I did not go to said concert but a reliable report thus tells me so.] -JaiGuruYou ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <yifuxero@...> wrote : The significance of Gayatri Mantra http://www.artofliving.org/significance-gayatri-mantra http://www.artofliving.org/significance-gayatri-mantra The significance of Gayatri Mantra http://www.artofliving.org/significance-gayatri-mantra Bangalore, India Adi Shankaracharyaji, after having given all the knowledge he had to give he says one last thing, ‘O Shiva! You are me View on www.artofliving.org http://www.artofliving.org/significance-gayatri-mantra Preview by Yahoo