Charisma and shakti classically are not taught as the same thing. Charisma 
being more of the personality in faculties and shakti a life force itself.  

 Something I find interesting in this academic introduction further below is 
the attempt to introduce for academicians the aspect of shakti as primordial 
into the consideration of charisma, separate from personality features. .."Pure 
charisma thus is personal and is based on face-to-face contact and feelings of 
trust, duty, and love on the part of the followers (Schweitzer 1984, 33). It is 
creative and revolutionary, for "in its pure form charisma . . . may be said to 
exist only in the process of originating" (Weber 1964, 364). 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote :

 Shakti, What are they doing for good with it? 

 On a ‘shaktic scale’ different spiritual people evidently have different 
capacity to help transform others in their spiritual life.  And then there are 
the ones we call ‘saints’ for their transforming  capacity. In the old Quaker 
practice of silent meditative meetings some individual old Friends whose 
presence ‘settled’ the silence of the group meditative Quaker meetings were 
known as “Weighty Friends” for their field effect of shakti on others.  And 
then the scope of shakti transmission in someone living like Ammachi helps one 
consider the possibilities of homo sapien. 
 A 'shaktic' or spiritual experience scale different 
 from beliefs, enthusiasm, or faith in a doctrine.  'Shaktic' possibly 
 as a word for scale of actual spiritual experience.  Shakti as a word 
 for a spiritual energy or field  experienced directly. 
 -Graphing, Spiritual Experience with Millennial-ism

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote :


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote :

 "In using charisma to explain social change and heroic leaders, Weber did not 
intend merely to invent a dry academic term. Rather, he saw charisma as 
representing the incarnate life force itself, "the thrust of the sap in the 
tree and the blood in the veins," an elemental or daemonic power (Dow 1978)."  
-Prophetic Charisma.. Intro.


 Book Review:
 Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation for the Castaneda Phenomenon 
 Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation f... 
 Prophetic Charisma: A Psychological Explanation for the 'Castaneda Phenomenon' 
Introduction by Corey Donovan

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---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote :

 What of charisma, spiritually? 
  Where is TM with charisma?
 Evidently it would seem that TM's charisma is now "dispersed and routinized, 
..and not necessarily as great a force for social change,"  .. 
 'routinized', by this way of thinking:

 Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalities 
(1997) by Len Oakes
 Introduction by Corey Donovan
 What is this thing called charisma?
 [T]he idea of a divinely inspired power or talent is as old as mankind. The 
oldest surviving work of fiction, the Epic of Gilgamesh, tells of a 
warrior-king, part god and part man, who quests for the secret of eternal life. 
He has many adventures in the lands of the gods, and even attains that which he 
seeks, only to have it torn from his grasp at the last moment. He returns home 
convinced of the futility of his quest and knowing that "the central fact of my 
life is my death" (Kopp 1972, 31; Heidel 1968).

 The word "charisma" comes from the name of the Greek goddess Charis, who 
personified grace, beauty, purity, and altruism. Possession of these faculties 
came to be known as charisma. [Footnote: The Greek word is charizesthai, and it 
means favor or gift of divine origin. The Greeks do not seem to have associated 
this with the kind of demagogic and irrational leadership of which Plato wrote 
in his Gorgias, although they were well aware of the rhapsodic "Dionysian" 
aspect of life; Plato was a member of the Elysian mystery cult. For Aristotle 
the megalopsychos was the great man who dares to live alone in secret worship 
of his own soul. 
 The Romans called the hero’s charismatic power facilitas and believed it was 
derived from the gods.] 
 Later usages derive from St. Paul, who saw it as a gift of grace from God: "To 
one there is given through the spirit the message of wisdom, to another the 
message of knowledge by means of the same spirit, to another faith by the same 
spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one spirit, to another miraculous 
powers, to another prophecy" (1 Corinthians 12:8-10).


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote :


 There are scholarly teachers, gurus who teach technique, and saints who give 
help and can directly transform people. With any one or in combination 
(scholars, gurus, saints)  then what is the experience of charisma and where is 
the TMO now with charisma?  Charisma evidently can fluctuate in time in people 
and movements.   
 What is charisma?
 One author (Oakes) talks about 'prophetic charisma', on a different continuum 
than what we may see as narcissism, or narcissistic personalities and disorders.
 "Pure charisma thus is personal and is based on face-to-face contact and 
feelings of trust, duty, and love on the part of the followers (Schweitzer 
1984, 33). It is creative and revolutionary, for "in its pure form charisma . . 
. may be said to exist only in the process of originating" (Weber 1964, 364). 
At the other end of the continuum, routinized charisma describes what happens 
when a leader’s charisma is thinly dispersed throughout the followers who act 
in the leader’s name, typically after he has died. It may survive many 
generations and underlie a stable social order, but it is conservative and is 
not a force for social change (Miyahara 1983, 370)."


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesed...@yahoo.com> wrote :

 Nine years on, I'd exhale if I were them.:-) 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 Ollie, yours seems a fair critique of the situation here by comparison.  The 
True-believers of the TM meditating community are hopeful that Dr. Nader is 
that person though he is not too available to be experienced or quoted unless 
you have the money to be on courses with him.  Those who have been with him 
seem to ‘like’ him.   It remains to be more widely seen what the ‘nature’ of 
his charisma is in leadership going forward.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote :

 True, the spectrum of consciousness available through TM and TMSP is complete, 
spanning the transcendental states of consciousness, and bringing one to 
Brahman. None of these other programs cover such a range, though they can be 
helpful in offering a new, partial perspective on the journey. 

 The kicker with the TMO is there is no one living in Brahman heading the 
organization, so that these other programs are seen in opposition, and as 
threats, instead of seeing them as a partial picture, with the complete 
definition of the growth of consciousness always available through the 
techniques, and associated documents, and media of the TM program and TMSP.  

 Without someone new at the top to put this into perspective, Maharishi's 
teachings are the only fallback, with the consequence of the TMO becoming less 
relevant and increasingly conservative.  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 Fairfield has a lot of active long going satsanga groups.  The Oneness group 
has been on the ascendent in Fairfield for sometime in more recent years.  AOL 
is active still. Waking Down, the wavicle group, The meditator churches are 
vibrant too.  In a strict interpretation, these meetings should not be attended 
by TM teachers.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 Yes, it evidently was a spiritually attuned meeting of a lot of old TM 
teachers in Fairfield, Iowa.  The guy came to Fairfield through the Oneness 
group.  Apparently the mantras were very well sung with good effect.  Was yet 
another spiritually powerful meeting of Fairfield.  Lot of our old TM community 
here was there in the audience listening/meditating with it.  

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote :

 Good - whatever it takes. ;-)


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <olliesedwuz@...> wrote :

 ...sounds like the "Krishna Das" aberration. A billion Indians, and everyone 
wants to listen to a guy from Long Island instead. Like when they used to make 
the cowboy westerns and all the Native American parts were played by white 
actors from LA and NYC. 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :

 The original post seems a good reminder about the vibratory nature of mantras. 

 There was a guy touring here to Fairfield tonight singing these mantras in a 
program downtown attended by quite a full crowd of TM teachers meditating along 
with the singing of these mantras.  The TM teachers, many of them being re-cert 
TM teachers or old TM teachers who are being paid to be on the IA grant in the 
Dome did not themselves seem ‘confused’ by such spiritual practice as the 
current Dome badge guidelines for being in the Dome meditation would assert.  
[I did not go to said concert but a reliable report thus tells me so.]   


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <yifuxero@...> wrote :

 The significance of Gayatri Mantra 
 The significance of Gayatri Mantra 
http://www.artofliving.org/significance-gayatri-mantra Bangalore, India   Adi 
Shankaracharyaji, after having given all the knowledge he had to give he says 
one last thing, ‘O Shiva! You are me

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