--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Well, Anon, the only solution is to "get" enlightened
> and join the fun. 

For some reason, when I read this I heard the
Kingston Trio singing in the background:

I see by your outfit that you are enlightened
You see my my outfit that I'm enlightened, too
Get yourself an outfit
And be enlightened, too.

:-)

> But in all seriousness, the
> difference in expressions and attitudes regarding
> enlightenment are just the impact of That on different
> "mind-streams (if I may borrow a Gangaji term). It's
> why there is no one spiritual tradition. There is
> never going to be total intellectual agreement
> regarding That, although That is the "same" for all.
> This 20 point list is just the concern of a particular
> mind on the impact of That on his/her mind.

Yup. But I liked that mind's emphasis on being
funny. Funny is good.  :-)

> --- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Skunk button pushing comments snipped for brevity.
> > Comment below
> > 
> > Alex writes:
> > > Is it your belief that an enlightened person no
> > longer has an ego or
> > > conditioned mind?
> > Akasha/Anon writes:
> > I think the term "enlightenment" is a label, that
> > serves little
> > positive purpose -- and its use has many downsides.
> > Its quite clear
> > that various people define the term in quite
> > different ways -- those
> > from different "traditions" and even those
> > proclaiming to be living
> > the label. Just today's post illustrates such. 
> > 
> > Both Jim and Peter claim enlightenment and yet quite
> > sharply disagree
> > on the 20 point list of attributes posted yesterday.
> >  
> > 
> > Another example of the self-proclaimed enlightened
> > and various
> > traditions not agreeing on what the term refers to
> > is your question
> > about ego. Your premise, it appears is that there is
> > a ego in
> > enlightenment. Peter vigorously and abundantly
> > disagrees -- stated
> > emphatically that he has searched everywhere no ego
> > can be found --
> > and it is on this single criteria that he claims
> > enlightenment. 
> > 
> > (Though ironically, thre is some "individuality" in
> > the "peter-sphere"
> > that regularly feels insulted. And also which gets
> > "bent out of shape"
> > and lashes out in anger.) 
> > 
> > And M Godman, who also claims enlightenment, states
> > emphatically, and
> > with even more words than Peter, that there indeed
> > is an ego in
> > enlightenment, but it no longer "rules" like it does
> > pre-enlightnment
> > -- it becomes subordinate to the Self. 
> > 
> > Jim, who claims the same enlightenemnt claims anyone
> > who thinks there
> > is no ego in enlightenment is insane.
> > 
> > And I assume, corrections welcome, that the premise
> > of your question
> > stems from the view of Waking Down that there is an
> > ego (and
> > conditioned mind) in enlightnement. 
> > 
> > Rory, who claims enlightenment, has even gone as far
> > as to say that he
> > simple made up his own criteria for enlightenement,
> > then "realized" 
> > that whcih he defined, and then started using the
> > title "enlightenment
> > -- even though his definition was his own and
> > neither a "traditional"
> > one nor the TMO one.
> > 
> > And Tom T, who claims enlightenment, says there are
> > milions of
> > diferent types of enlightenemnt, or flavors as he
> > calls them. 
> > 
> > Further Peter, again -- just today -- refers to cc
> > as "baby
> > realization" or baby enlightenment. Yet, if you
> > refer to the archives,
> > you will find a post from Tom where he "ranted" on
> > and on (IMO) in a
> > long post why calling cc as "baby" anything was
> > paraphrasing, stupid,
> > insane and agenda laden. 
> > 
> > Off cites MMY recently as saying enlightenment is 24
> > hour bliss.
> > Peter, greatly discounts bliss, repeatedly stating
> > that "bliss is dumb". 
> > 
> > My own experience of bliss-saturated states in
> > activity is that anger,
> > ego-driven activities, and glomminess (a fairly
> > regular quality of
> > Tom's posts) cannot be found -- and are found
> > "impossible" to arise. 
> > Whatever that state is, and/or MMY's  "24-hour
> > bliss" enlightenment,
> > clearly they have little to do with Peter's and
> > Tom's experience with
> > whatever they experience and label as
> > "enlightenment" (experience used
> > in broad sense of ' experiencing a state of
> > consciousness' not like 'I
> > experience the flower').
> > 
> > So hopefully you share some the the difficulty I
> > have with the  use of
> > the label "enlightenment". And also the phenomenon
> > of
> > self-proclamation of self-defined enlightenment.
> > 
> > My original comments, abve, on Tom's post are part
> > of my periodic
> > laughter at the ironies, paradoxes and/or
> > inconsistencies sxpressed by
> >  so-called self-proclaimed enlightened. Tom
> > proclaims that it is
> > solely Brahman  who seees through Tom's eyes and
> > types throuhg Tom's
> > fingers. So when Tom regularly lasses out in (IMO)
> > appears as gloom,
> > anger, and silly reasoning, it makes me laugh.
> > Similar to my laughter
> > when Peter claims "absolutely no ego exists" yet
> > feels deeply insulted
> > at times. And my laughter at the band of
> > self-proclaimed enlightened
> > as they stumble over themselves in expressing
> > contractiory attributes
> > of the assumed (by the casual reader) commonality of
> > the label
> > "enlightenment" (when in fact they are each defining
> > the state in
> > different ways.)
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > Have your ever heard of the Paradox of Brahman? Is
> > it possible that
> > this conundrum is something the mind can not fathom.
> > Or is it Jaimini?
> > Hmmmm!
> > Enjoy! Tom T
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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