--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, Anon, the only solution is to "get" enlightened > and join the fun.
For some reason, when I read this I heard the Kingston Trio singing in the background: I see by your outfit that you are enlightened You see my my outfit that I'm enlightened, too Get yourself an outfit And be enlightened, too. :-) > But in all seriousness, the > difference in expressions and attitudes regarding > enlightenment are just the impact of That on different > "mind-streams (if I may borrow a Gangaji term). It's > why there is no one spiritual tradition. There is > never going to be total intellectual agreement > regarding That, although That is the "same" for all. > This 20 point list is just the concern of a particular > mind on the impact of That on his/her mind. Yup. But I liked that mind's emphasis on being funny. Funny is good. :-) > --- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Skunk button pushing comments snipped for brevity. > > Comment below > > > > Alex writes: > > > Is it your belief that an enlightened person no > > longer has an ego or > > > conditioned mind? > > Akasha/Anon writes: > > I think the term "enlightenment" is a label, that > > serves little > > positive purpose -- and its use has many downsides. > > Its quite clear > > that various people define the term in quite > > different ways -- those > > from different "traditions" and even those > > proclaiming to be living > > the label. Just today's post illustrates such. > > > > Both Jim and Peter claim enlightenment and yet quite > > sharply disagree > > on the 20 point list of attributes posted yesterday. > > > > > > Another example of the self-proclaimed enlightened > > and various > > traditions not agreeing on what the term refers to > > is your question > > about ego. Your premise, it appears is that there is > > a ego in > > enlightenment. Peter vigorously and abundantly > > disagrees -- stated > > emphatically that he has searched everywhere no ego > > can be found -- > > and it is on this single criteria that he claims > > enlightenment. > > > > (Though ironically, thre is some "individuality" in > > the "peter-sphere" > > that regularly feels insulted. And also which gets > > "bent out of shape" > > and lashes out in anger.) > > > > And M Godman, who also claims enlightenment, states > > emphatically, and > > with even more words than Peter, that there indeed > > is an ego in > > enlightenment, but it no longer "rules" like it does > > pre-enlightnment > > -- it becomes subordinate to the Self. > > > > Jim, who claims the same enlightenemnt claims anyone > > who thinks there > > is no ego in enlightenment is insane. > > > > And I assume, corrections welcome, that the premise > > of your question > > stems from the view of Waking Down that there is an > > ego (and > > conditioned mind) in enlightnement. > > > > Rory, who claims enlightenment, has even gone as far > > as to say that he > > simple made up his own criteria for enlightenement, > > then "realized" > > that whcih he defined, and then started using the > > title "enlightenment > > -- even though his definition was his own and > > neither a "traditional" > > one nor the TMO one. > > > > And Tom T, who claims enlightenment, says there are > > milions of > > diferent types of enlightenemnt, or flavors as he > > calls them. > > > > Further Peter, again -- just today -- refers to cc > > as "baby > > realization" or baby enlightenment. Yet, if you > > refer to the archives, > > you will find a post from Tom where he "ranted" on > > and on (IMO) in a > > long post why calling cc as "baby" anything was > > paraphrasing, stupid, > > insane and agenda laden. > > > > Off cites MMY recently as saying enlightenment is 24 > > hour bliss. > > Peter, greatly discounts bliss, repeatedly stating > > that "bliss is dumb". > > > > My own experience of bliss-saturated states in > > activity is that anger, > > ego-driven activities, and glomminess (a fairly > > regular quality of > > Tom's posts) cannot be found -- and are found > > "impossible" to arise. > > Whatever that state is, and/or MMY's "24-hour > > bliss" enlightenment, > > clearly they have little to do with Peter's and > > Tom's experience with > > whatever they experience and label as > > "enlightenment" (experience used > > in broad sense of ' experiencing a state of > > consciousness' not like 'I > > experience the flower'). > > > > So hopefully you share some the the difficulty I > > have with the use of > > the label "enlightenment". And also the phenomenon > > of > > self-proclamation of self-defined enlightenment. > > > > My original comments, abve, on Tom's post are part > > of my periodic > > laughter at the ironies, paradoxes and/or > > inconsistencies sxpressed by > > so-called self-proclaimed enlightened. Tom > > proclaims that it is > > solely Brahman who seees through Tom's eyes and > > types throuhg Tom's > > fingers. So when Tom regularly lasses out in (IMO) > > appears as gloom, > > anger, and silly reasoning, it makes me laugh. > > Similar to my laughter > > when Peter claims "absolutely no ego exists" yet > > feels deeply insulted > > at times. And my laughter at the band of > > self-proclaimed enlightened > > as they stumble over themselves in expressing > > contractiory attributes > > of the assumed (by the casual reader) commonality of > > the label > > "enlightenment" (when in fact they are each defining > > the state in > > different ways.) > > > > Tom T: > > Have your ever heard of the Paradox of Brahman? Is > > it possible that > > this conundrum is something the mind can not fathom. > > Or is it Jaimini? > > Hmmmm! > > Enjoy! Tom T > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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