--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has it not occurred to you that you're trying to > lecture someone who in your view does not *have* > free will and convince him to use that non-existent > free will to change his behavior and his beliefs? That you insinuate, that I'd like to change you. > Pretty silly. :-) Nope, since I'm part of the universe. > <snip to> > > > I prefer the old-fashioned concepts of bhakti > > and surrender,... > > Exactly. That has been my suggestion all along, that > the philosophy you express is a matter of preference. > Period. You have a predisposition to value surrender, > so you had to conceive of something to surrender *to*. > Voila...the universe runs everything...I can surrender > to it. :-) Wrong. Its not about philosophy or who is running the show. You could be an Advaitin and surrender to the Guru. The only point is surrender of the ego, and that cannot be avoided > > ...something I have never heard of you. > > Ah...the *real* reason you're here lecturing me. This is for anybody who likes to read it. Don't you like it, you are free to not respond or even not read. FYI an earlier part of our exchange has been valued by some people who quoted it fully twice. So, its not that I am lecturing on you. You are just my hang up for the moment. > *Despite* all your talk about how everything is > perfect because the universe does it all, you're > here lecturing me on my imperfections, as you see > them. See any inherent contradiction in this? :-) No, as I am part of the universe. It's actually part of the universes perfection. Btw. I am not really talking about perfection or not, that I do not know. I just talk about accepting of what IS. > > I don't say that everybody has to go the Guru-vada, > > ...but I think that anybody missing Bhakti, or a sense of > > surrender in his path is lacking in depth and probably > > fooling himself. > > And thus...dare I say it...not perfect? :-) Sure. As there are different levels of looking at something. Something maybe perfect from one POV and imperfect from a lower POV. > You've gotta get *your* consistency act together, > dude. Either everything's perfect or it ain't. You > can't have it both ways. Why not? The universe allows for contradictions. Weren't these your words just a moment ago? > If the universe is running things and is perfect > at every moment, then how could I be missing > something? Really you don't have to take care of the universe. Let it be the problem of the universe and care about your own. As you believe in free will, don't you? > > There is no problem in fooling others, and try to appear as > > great and whitty etc, but don't fool yourself. > > Are you suggesting that I am less than perfect? > Well dude, to stay consistent with the philosophy > you've been spouting the last couple of days, you'd > have to say that's the universe's fault, not mine. > Right? After all, according to you, *it* is making > all the decisions and pulling all the strings and > running things. Sure, and thats why it makes me act in this way, so that you might gain insight just at the right time, - or not, ;-) which is okay for me. Same thing for your argument: Why didn't the Maharishi teach us right away that we are already enlightened. Why should he, if we were already enlightened, we would know, so no need really. IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the Self there aren't, everything is perfect.It's just a matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and pretend its the Self-POV. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
