Transcript of a Talk by Tat Wale Baba In the presence of His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
At Maharishi's Ashram, Rishikesh, India - 1967 Excerpt from: Yoga Guru Sri Tat Wale Baba - Rishi of the Himalayas by Vincent J. Daczynski Full text of book available at: http://www.yogiphotos.com (Tat Wale Baba began his discourse in unstrained, forceful Hindi, and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi translated [into English].) TWB: What is the aim of all the beings? It is the attainment of infi- nite happiness. A life free from suffering, and the attainment of eternal happiness is what we want. Now, we should discriminate and analyze if there is anything in the world which can give us permanent, eternal happiness. From the ant up to the giant of the Creator, all are in the field of change, that is, relative values. Infinite happiness can only come from something which could be immor- tal, non-changing, eternal. This which is the goal of everything, this infinite, is our own Self. And in order to experience that Self which is the basis of all, we don't have to seek, we don't have to search, we don't have to make efforts. It's there, present everywhere. Wherever you are, in whatever reign of time or place, that Self is there - wher- ever we are, in whatever time. Only, we have to take our awareness to that level and that is it. Hav- ing forgotten that level of life, we are seeking for that eternal happi- ness. That Self is. It is Being and it is blissful. Having forgotten that, we now are seeking for it. We have forgotten what we ourselves are and we're trying to find that in the world. As long as we don't enter into that area which is infinite happiness, free from suffering, so long we will not be free from suffering and we will not get into that eternal happiness. There is no happiness of significant nature in the world; the child is gone, and the youth is gone, and the man is old, and even then he is not fulfilled in the world. When he gets established in the Self, then automatically freedom from suffering and attainment of bliss will be there. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi interjected, "The thing is very important which he says now!" TWB: That which is omnipresent doesn't have to be sought. It's there al- ready. Start to Be. That which is omnipresent is not to be sought; only our awareness has to be brought to that level and that bliss is there. You don't have to seek it. Understand? Unless we get into that omnipre- sent bliss, satisfaction is not going to come. If it were to come, it would have come by now through so many avenues in the world. But, it has not. Therefore, that which is the Self is your own Being. You don't have to look in the outside. And, it is irrespective of any religious faiths or beliefs; Christians or Mormons or Hindus. That Being is the knowledge itself. Only, you have to know [it]. All these various manifestations of happiness that we experience in the world, they also are the manifestations of the same eternal Being which is our own Self. If we are aware of the Self, if we know it, fine. Otherwise, we have to Be. And, therefore, it is necessary to bring our awareness deep within ourselves. As deeply as we can bring our awareness to the Self, so in- tensely we can inherit that which is omnipresent in our day to day life. Having known that Self we will be eternally contented; remaining in the world we will live contentment. And, it's not a matter of detaching our- selves from the world. Only, we have to know It, and having known It, then, all different manifestations in the world will be experienced as manifestations of That. We don't have to detach ourselves. It is just a matter of bringing the awareness to that area, and Be, and live It. Having gained this beautiful, perfect human nervous system, if we have known that element of the Self, then we have really used this wonderful diamond-like gift, this diamond-like nervous system which is capable of giving that eternal bliss. If it is not experienced, then we have wasted that gift of diamond. We have taken upon ourselves this human nervous system, not for the sake of petty enjoyment of changing nature in this relative field of change, but to live and be that infinite bliss. And, we will have to attain that thing whether we attain it in this life, or in the next, or in the next. We just can't forego that. Therefore, with the assistance of the guru and the scriptures, better to attain it quickly. Why postpone? (Tat Wale Baba's talk was followed by an opportunity for questions to be asked. As each question was asked in English, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi translated to Hindi, then translated Tat Wale Baba's replies [back into English].) Student: Can he tell us of his master and the tradition he follows? TWB: The Self is free from any tradition or non-tradition. MMY (adding his own comment): He is from the tradition of Shukadev. Shukadev was like him, not of this world. Away from it. Student: Can he tell us what kind of meditation he does? TWB: I am established in Vedanta and that way we talk about it, and we Be. There is no practice as such. Student: What do you think about Transcendental Meditation? TWB: Transcendental Consciousness is the basis of all experience. Pure Consciousness is That through which we experience. That is not a thing which one can experience. And, all this world is in a state of Pure Consciousness, and it is through That that we experience everything. Pure Consciousness, or Transcendental Consciousness, is nothing that we experience. Through That we are experiencing everything. That is the basis of all experience, and experiencing. So enjoy that state. Student: Is it possible to increase one's capacity to enjoy that state? TWB: We can increase it to any great extent through meditation. And as we go deeper, That will shine forth in our life outside. So, it's possi- ble to increase our ability to be That. And, that is through meditation. Student: Does he have any techniques that he teaches his disciples? TWB: We are sitting in the forest, and when we are sitting in the forest we have some purpose to perform, and with that we are sitting. If some seeker comes and asks, fine. We give advice. Otherwise, we don't have much time. We are in the forest, and we are in the forest for some pur- pose. But, if some seeker comes, fine. His doubts are cleared and removed. Student: Does he think that his way of life helps the rest of mankind or only him? TWB: All these saints meditating and established in the Self, they are the basis for all this running of the entire universe, and they are the basis of the whole thing, and not for themselves alone. Their good vibra- tions are influencing societies for their advancement. Student: Like a powerhouse? TWB: Like a powerhouse. The powerhouse is in Delhi and the bulb is shin- ing here. It is not the bulb that is shining. It's the power from the powerhouse. It is the saints established in their Self who are infusing life into the whole universe. And, it is they who have found Smriti Pura- nanam (Vedic codes of behavior). It is they who have found the essentials, the realities of life, and have taught to the world various conducts of living; ways of realization of the Self, ways of realization of God, and all these higher states of life. It is they who have brought wisdom home to the world, and they are at the basis of all the increasing prosperity of the world through their vibrations and through their attainment. Student: How much sleep does he require? TWB: If I sleep what will happen to the world? Asleep and awake - the sleep and awake is the nature of the mind. Sometimes the mind sleeps, sometimes it is awake. If I sleep, the whole basis of the world would be sleeping and then there will be left nothing. So, I don't sleep. If some- one sleeps it is the mind. The Self doesn't sleep. All these states of waking, dreaming; they belong to the mind. They are not the state of the Self. And, if you speak of my sleeping, I don't sleep because the Self doesn't sleep. If the Self sleeps then the whole world would go into sleep. Student: Is there any difference between the time that he is meditating and the time when he is not meditating, in how he feels, or his inter- action with the environment? TWB: Meditating for some time, one gets established permanently in the state of Being. And then, wherever the mind goes one is established in that Self no matter what one does here or there; it doesn't matter when one is established in the Self. And, that state comes after some time from going deep inside and coming out. With this practice one gets esta- blished permanently in the Self, and then whatever you do you are not separate from the Self. Students: Are you living in that state now? TWB: That which is unborn, eternal, we can't talk about it in terms of time. In terms of time the Self can't be talked. Student: Does he feel that there is more to attain? TWB: What is there to be gained or attained? That which is to be gained is omnipresent, and we are That, and it's already attained. As long as the mind has been wavering only in the changing relative, so long it was out of sight. And, when the mind has been concentrated and has attained to that level, nothing new has happened. The thing that was there, it is there. Nothing new has happened or has been attained. Nothing! That which was there is there even now, and was even before. Only the difference is in the mind; the mind was unaware of That and now the mind is aware. So, what is there to talk about attainment of further states? Student: Can he tell us of the love that flows from one's heart once the state is attained? TWB: One's love overflows. As one loves himself so does he begin to love others. Because in that state there is none other than one's Self. There- fore, one's love for one's Self is one's love for others. And then, what- ever communications are there, they are communications in one's own Self. The Self is golden. It is only a matter of taking our awareness to That and then the criterion for That will be that we will begin to display all love and harmony in the field of all our action and experience. That will be the criterion. When the love increases, that becomes the balance to measure that we are nearing That. Otherwise, the thing is already there, only we have to incorporate it in our lives. We have to exhibit more of love, more of happiness. Expression of That is necessary, otherwise the state of That is already there. And, we will begin to express more of it when we become more aware of it. Student: Can we meditate with you? (Tat Wale Baba closed his eyes and we all meditated for about twenty minutes. Then, the opportunity to ask more questions resumed.) Student: What do you see for the future of the world? TWB: We have to create future. Future does not have to create us. And, if we do good things and meditate and experience that Self and be omni- present, future is going to be good. If we do not, we are going to cre- ate a bad future. We have to create the future. The future is in our hands. Student: Will there be world peace? The world is within you. And, if you are at peace within, if your aware- ness is established in your Self your world is in peace. And, if you are wavering and peaceless and you are not in tune with your own eternal state of Being then the world is in peacelessness. If you want to create peace on the cosmic level then you must take refuge in God. And, if you want peace within yourself, realize the Self and your world will be in peace and you will see that the whole world is in peace. The world is as you are, and the world will be as you will be. Student: Are there any shortcuts to purification of karma? TWB: The shortest cut to the purification of karma is surrender to God, devotion to God, realization of the Self. And, when you realize the Self all your mind and senses will be purified. And, when your senses are purified all your actions will be good. They will be life-supporting. They behave with you as your friends. And, if the mind is not establish- ed in the Self, in the glory of God, then your own senses will become your enemy. And then, all your karma will pounce upon you as your enemy. It is the fixity of the mind in the Self that makes your senses your friend, and non-fixity of the mind in the Self makes your senses your enemy. Senses-enemy means karma, because the karma is performed by the senses. So the karma will be good if the mind is established in the Self and karma will not be good if the mind is not established in the Self. Practice. Increase your practice to arrive at that goal. Student: Is it a liability to be a householder and do this practice? TWB: Householder's way of life is not bad. But, not being able to live up to the standards of this life-style we make a hell out of ourselves in a householder's way of life. Student: Is it possible to work in the world when we have gained the highest state of pure supreme knowledge? TWB: There are two ways of life, householder and recluse. Those who are in the householder's way of life, they by habit are engaged in activity, even having gained that state of supreme knowledge. And, those who are recluse by nature, they don't have anything to do with the activity of life. So, they continue to live that way. But, both live that state of supreme knowledge. Student: Is it possible that one who lives a householder's way of life can then desire to switch and live the life of a recluse? Or, would this cause a conflict? TWB: The ideal condition would be not to enter into the household. If you want to become a sanyasi (renunciate), or, if you have entered the householder's life, then share the responsibility that you have taken with the wife and children, and then complete that responsibility. Get your children educated and be done with the whole thing. Then, it would be good to waver off from there. Otherwise, don't enter it, and that will be the more ideal. Having taken the responsibility it won't be good to shut that responsibility. 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