--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> 
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <jedi_spock@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >       First, What is your definition of insanity.??
> > > 
> > > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex
> > > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it
> > > would include defining as insane people who give 
> > > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to 
> > > honor those titles.
> > 
> > Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the 
TMO?
> 
> Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I 
don't
> consider that insane.  My main problem here is that MMY is still
> giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people
> based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing 
since
> the 108 days.  I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to
> whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on 
money
> all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file.




>From day one, I always got the impression that the rank and file 
were treated like shit in the TMO.




>  
> >  It would also include those 
> > > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles.  :-)
> > 
> > 
> > Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club 
that 
> > they belong to?
> 
> You're right, no-one ... but MMY has expressed genuine 
disappointment
> that Hagelin was not elected president and at other rather bizarre
> notions, so it seems he and others in the inner circle might take
> these titles very seriously.
> 
> > > >       Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore
> > > > the teachings completely.  That would be like throwing
> > > > the baby along with the bathwater.
> > > 
> > > Some babies deserve to be thrown out.  I'm with Shemp
> > > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever*
> > > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM.
> > 
> > > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and
> > > thus potentially valuable.  I think that everything
> > > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and
> > > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out.
> > 
> > The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't 
> > sweeping the country in popularity?
> 
> Ayurved is popular in new agey and wholistic circles, but not 
sweeping
> the nation IMO, and sweeping mainly in Chopra and Weil circles.  
Amrit
> kalash is sweeping the emerging diabetics section of the country.  
The
> issue for me isn't whether these alternative programs have 
potential
> value, but how the tmo has managed them - the enlightenment 
centers in
> malls plan is a joke and sweeping towards bankrupcy, but no-one 
dares
> contradicts or gives reality checks to raja wynne or MMY.
>  
> > > >       Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be
> > > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement.
> > > 
> > > Who said a big movement was necessary?  That's the 
> > > question that True Believers never seem to ask them-
> > > selves.  Many spiritual organizations (for example,
> > > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that
> > > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times
> > > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the
> > > TM organization does.
> > 
> > Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country?
> 
> This is a really interesting pt.  There has to be some middle 
ground
> between being a effective (corporate-like) marketing org. (which is
> necessary to actually reach people today) and being obsessed with
> marketing driven by greed or culty evangelical zeal (which 
ultimately
> undermines your original mission).  I think the tmo balanced it 
pretty
> well in the 70s.
> 
> >   In my opinion, the TMO has turned
> > > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating 
> > > itself, not with helping others.  The goals of the
> > > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now
> > > is perpetuating the organization.
> > 
> > At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming 
seminar 
> > on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have 
over 
> > 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their 
> > lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start.
> 
> Certainly lots of potential for marketing TM via specific areas 
like
> high blood pressure, ADHD and others, but doesn't seem to be the
> desire of the central org. who whole heartedly believe MMY and the 
TMO
> are the only hope for world salvation right now and who want 
billions
> to achieve it.  For 2 decades now these good little projects have
> withered away for this reason.
> 
> > > >       Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and
> > > > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary.
> > > 
> > > IMO, there have never been any "masters" in history,
> > > only people who longed to be subservient and thus
> > > picked someone to be subservient to so that they
> > > could call them "master."
>  
> > Which is why I still call my ole gung fu teacher "sifu" when I 
see 
> > him, and why I call my former Japanese teacher "Yamashita-
sensei," 
> > even though he hasn't been my teacher in over a year, when he 
calls 
> > to say hi.
> 
> Sounds like you're giving them respect, which is good and different
> from subservience.
>







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