--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Apr 11, 2006, at 10:01 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:
> > 
> > > The "talking" school generally attracts those who have a minimal  
> > > capability for (or capable
> > > impulse toward) renunciation, Yogic (or Spiritual) discipline, and  
> > > deep meditation, but who
> > > otherwise are habituated to constantly talk, listen, and think.
The  
> > > "discipline" and the
> > > "Realization" in the "talking" school (especially in its modern  
> > > form) are generally minimal,
> > > weak, superficial, temporary, and merely mental (or
intellectual) ,  
> > > and the "talking" school
> > > is (and has been) rightly criticized because of this.
> > 
> > Bingo!
> 
> There simply is no 'talking school'. It's an invention of whomever.
> Shravana means listening. Manana means thinking. Listening and
> thinking go hand in hand.

And need not be done in groups. ("listening" beingbroadly define as
accepting input -- from reading, inquiry, attention on saints,etc.)

> Even Shankara himself stated that there
> cannot be a practise to 'achieve' enlightenment, only the Self can
> realize itself. 

Which is a statement for "teaching" but is not Truth. Its pretty funny
 indeed.  The Self wakes up and realizes ItSelf??? So the Self was
sleeping before??? haha. 

CICI (Consciousness is Conscious of Itself) is eternal. Not an off/on
phenomenon. What it is that "wakes up" locally to realize / know /
experience that CICI maybe a mystery of sorts. Why do some humans
realize IT, and a rock doesn't? (For CICI in a rock just as much as in
a human.) It at least in part is triggered by understanding / insight
(though triggered by such, IT is not a mere understanding in itself)
-- available to humans via the intellect, something not available to a
rock. But the trigger and resulting living appreciation that CICI has
nothing to do with Consciousness waking up or realizing itself -from a
state of non-realization.)

And this does open the door for an immediate trigger -- which could be
via satsang, or reading statements of truth, or simply deep analysis
and "figuring out" the insight/trigger. (And the stability of the
post-trigger state may vary.)

>For example, one chapter in Shankaras Upadesha Sahasra
> is entitled: 'How to enlighten a disciple' and it consists purely of
> dialog between teacher and disciple,interms of realizing the Atman as
> unconditional reality. No talk of tantric practises or any practise at
> all! But one thing is true: For Shankara not everyone was eligable to
> receive this knowledge: Only Brahmins who had studied the Vedas and
> who where Brahmacharins could do so. But for breaking that rule you
> have to credit already Ramana, Nisargadatta and Vivekananda. It is
> also true, that the controvery about Advaita exists already as long as
> there is Advaita.
>






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