--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], anon_couscous_ff <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > <snip> > > > > > At any rate, the shows you mention, partly because > > > > > they're *shows*, are all in pretty much a different > > > > > category than a piece of writing in which a group is > > > > > demeaned without ever showing the group's positive side. > > > > > > > > Well South Park -- from what I have seen of it, pretty much > demans > > > > everyone -- does not show a positive side when doing so -- and > is > > > > hilarious. > > > > > > I don't watch "South Park," but I don't have any > > > argument with your thesis that if a comedy demeans > > > *everybody*, it's not bigoted. But that is a different > > > point than the one I was making. > > > > Well as I understood you, you made a distinction between a comedian > > or forum that pokes barbs at everyone (all agreed its ok) and when > > such becomes demeaning of a particular groups -- even its all groups > > (overtime). I was responding to the demeaing part of your arguemnt. > > No, I never said that, sorry.
I am pretty sure you did in last nights posts. But maybe I misread you. I don't have time to look for the quote Regardless, you are clarified your position. I >To the contrary, I > said I couldn't recall The Onion ever having demeaned > Jews as a group or blacks as a group or Muslims as a > group. You said you thought you recalled pieces along > those lines but couldn't come up with any and brought > forth a list of sitcoms and movies instead. > > Then I said (above) written satirical pieces and sitcoms/ > movies are in different categories--and then you cited > "South Park," which was a non sequitur as far as I can > tell. > > > > > > One other point: When the unattractive characteristic > > > > > is actually harmful, there's a lot more basis for > > > > > holding it up to ridicule. The caste system in > > > > > India is clearly harmful. I've heard the veneration of > > > > > cows criticized as harmful--can't recall the reasons--but > > > > > among the world's evils, it doesn't seem like such a > > > > > big deal. And what on earth is harmful about cooking > > > > > over a fire? > > > > > > > > > > Those two were just plain gratuitous, suggesting that > > > > > Indians are basically uncivilized. Of course these > > > > > things would be harmful *on a plane*, but nobody actually > > > > > brings cows on a plane or tries to do their cooking over > > > > > a fire on a plane. > > > > > > > > > > If they'd wanted to keep it consistent and inoffensive > > > > > while still criticizing the caste system, they'd have > > > > > thought of something that lower-caste people tend to > > > > > do on planes that *isn't* harmful but is disdained by > > > > > the higher castes, so that the criticism remained > > > > > focused on those who are scornful of the lower castes, > > > > > not those who are the object of the scorn. > > > > > > > > I think its pretty clear (to me) that if you tried your hand at > > > > writing comedy, it would be political correct, inoffensive, and > > > > not funny. > > > > > > I don't think I ever claimed to be a comedy writer, > > > actually. But if a good comedy writer attempted what > > > I suggested, I suspect the result could very well be > > > inoffensive but quite funny (maybe not politically > > > correct--that's a whole 'nother can of worms). > > > > > > > > I'm sure it wasn't intended to be bigoted, it was just > > > > > not well thought out. > > > > > > > > My take on the two lines you found offensive in the piece are > > > > different from yours. Why you don't find the satire (I didn't > > > > say high satire) in the piece -- ridiculing stereotypes -- by > > > > making such extreme and silly, is a bit mystifying. > > > > > > Where exactly did I say I didn't find the satire > > > in the piece? I said to the contrary several times. > > > I laughed out loud at the burlap bag bit. > > > > OK. But now Iam getting confused on your point. > > > > > I can't see where you actually addressed the points I > > > made regarding those two lines and why they stuck out > > > from the rest of the piece. > > > > As above, I thought you were saying that when a particular group is > > demeaned its inappropriate. I countered (over several posts) that > > while I agree that if the demeaining is limited to a particular > > group -- for example, good ol' boys in the south in the 50's, 60's > > with racial jokes, or the boys club in corp america in 70's-90's > > with women jokes, then thats a social stratifying power thing. But > > if the "demeaning" is broad-based its fair game. > > This is now so utterly confused and far from my > original point that it's not worth trying to > straighten out. There is confusion, it could be at many points of writing and understanding. But good. Lets drop it. > > >Instead you set up a couple > > > of straw men to knock down. > > > > Not on purpose. I have tried to address your points as I understood > > them. > > You didn't address any of them. And you came up with > yet another straw man above. If you say so.It was not my intent. And I don't see it. > Finis. If you aren't going to debate in good faith, > forget it. I am making a good faith effort to address your points, and bring up my own. We appear to be bogged down in a pit of confusion. Lets drop the specifics of the onion. Its going nowhere Points of interest (to me) are: * The distinction between bigoted, social stratifying humor and humor aimed at all "the human comedy". * Tthe definition of, positive and negative characteristics of the caste system. And its future and relavnce. Neo caste systems in America and Europe. Implications of genetic mapping and research to caste. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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