> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@>
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Right, which is why you posted that you saw Frederick Lenz
> > > > > move the stars around in the sky (Lenz's schtick was to
> > > > > people stare at him until they hallucinated:
> > > > > http://skepdic.com/rama.html ).
> > > >
> > > > The thing is, Bob, I really saw it. It was *my* experience.
> > >
> > > A hallucination can also be an experience.
> > >
> > > > I didn't have to read about it in New Age Fantasy Comix. :-)
> > >
> > > Which wouldn't exclude fantazising about it, as you had read
> > > such stuff before, eg all of the Castaneda books.
> > Look, I get it. You folks would like nothing more
> > than to believe my experiences with Rama were
> > hallucinations. It makes you *happy* to believe
> > this.
> That really has nothing to do with happiness. Unlike others it
> make me happy if others fail. Just pointing out that 'seeing'
> something, and 'being there' is in no way contradictory to
> hallicunation. Thats simply its definition: 'Seeing' something
> not there, and believing it to be 'there'
> > I have no such option. I was there.
> You were there that for sure. You may believe whatever you want
> it, but as you base your experiential superiority to Bob upon it,
> might allow others to question your 'experience'
> > And that's pretty much all I have to say about that.
> That is, that you believe you saw something to be really there,
> makes you feel you can talk with authority on the subject, while
> others talking about similar thing, you insinuate, do so only
> they can't have experiences about it, otherwise they wouldn't talk
> about it, right? But, after all, you can't talk with authority
> it, because you may have just been hallucinating. And further, your
> insinuate that they, who didn't have such
> couldn't have other more valid spiritual experiences. While I
> completely agree with Trungpa, that such talk is just a distraction
> from essential spiritual experiences, (like love and compassion for
> ones fellow spiritual travellers), you insinuate Michael and Bob
> couldn't have such experiences either.
> Barry, with you its all about: I have experiences, you (TMers)
> have. In fact you have assimilated MMYs message to a high degree,
> just inverted it, and use it as munition against TM. For example
> onepointedness to switch every topic to trash TM, or your whole
> Experience vs Belief/Religion act.
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