> For the record, I don't consider *anyone* on the planet
> enlightened. I think some people have had more experiences
> than others, and because I'm more interested in experience
> than in dry, dusty theory, I like hearing about their
> experiences. But that's all I consider them...experiences.
This is funny, in an interesting sort of way, not dissmissive.
For 3-4 years on FFL, I have been making similar if not the same points.
As I have posted a number of times, from different angels, I find
"enlightenment" is a useless label, and therefore to consider anyone
"enlightened" is fruitless. And what is of interest are experiences,
some of which are "spiritual" -- consciousness experiencing itself --
and some are relative flashes in the pan.
And yet, as I have understood it from past posts, you (UNC) have been
lambasting my views and posts in this topic area. How funny, since you
appear to hold the same view.
Perhaps its because, while I hold the label enlightenment to be of
little value, I try to respect claims of such as an interesting view
to explore. And I have tried to ask pertinent questions about their
criteria, attributes and manifestations of thier "states" in daily
life, and their experiences -- particularly that of consciousness
Such questioning, spanning over four years or so, began very
cautiously, politely and respectfully. Over the years, when faced,IMO,
with lots of diversions from, and non-answers on key attributes (IMO)
and possible confusing or contradictory statements about their
enlightemment, I have experimented with different forms of inquiry to
try to invoke some responses and further the discussion. Some such
forms proved useful, some counter-productive.
And over the years, I have laid out my own experiences for scrutiny
and similar questioning.
However, I don't recall ever dismissing or criticizing an account of
an experience, by itself (independent of singualr interpretations and
claims of enlightenment). Perhaps I have, and I would be gratified to
have the specifics pointed out to me, for my own improvement. What I
have questioned why various claimed attributes and experiences
constitute "enlightenment" -- as well as the posters' singular
interpretation of of their experiences.
Why you have so strenuously objected to such is paradoxical, IMO,
though in a humorous way.
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