wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "shempmcgurk"
> <shempmcgurk@> wrote:
> > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > --- In [email protected], "shempmcgurk"
> > > <shempmcgurk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In Arizona we have a state-sponsored plan where if you're
self-
> > > > employed (employees: 1 to 50) you can get a health insurance
> > > > HMO or PPO -- with guarantee issue, regardless of health
> > > > There is a 12-month elimination period for pre-existing
> > > > conditions but doesn't matter what they are, they kick in
> > > > and are covered after the elimination period...AND if you're
> > > > covered for these pre-existing conditions under an existing
> > > > plan you're on and are switching over to the state plan,
> > > > then you're covered.
> > > >
> > > > All members of your family are covered.
> > > >
> > > > If you're on a group plan, though, and you want to go on
> > > > this plan, you have to wait 6 months (this was an amendment
> > > > to the law by the private health insurance companies.
> > > >
> > > > When I first got health insurance back in '96 I paid $80.00
> > > > a month. Four years later it went up to $600.00 a month. I
> > > > switched over to the state-sponsored plan and it costs me
> > > > only $260.00 a month!
> > >
> > > Yeah, I used to pay $600 a month in the US, too. Now,
> > > in France, for a policy that offers more coverage
> > > than I used to get in the US for that price, I pay
> > > 230 Euros ($290). Per year.
> >
> > Yeah, but you gotta live in France to get it.
>
> I *get* to live in France.
>
> You Americans really need to get out more. :-)
>
> > Your comment reminds me of what this Haitian woman used to say
> > to me
> > when I worked in a Bodega in New York City one summer when I was
> > about 16. We sold produce which included avocados. I forget
the
> > exact price we used to sell them at but say they were then
selling
> > for 39 cents each.
> >
> > Well, this Haitian woman would come in (and she'd do this at
least
> > once a week) and she would pick up an avocado and ask us: "How
> > much are the avocados?" And we'd reply: "39 cents each!" And
> > she'd get a look of disdain on her face, discard the avocado she
> > was holding back onto the pile of them and say quite self-
> > righteously: "Well, in MY country they sell for 2 cents each!"
> > And then she's walk off in a huff.
> >
> > After a while, we started to say to her: "Yeah, but it's going
to
> > cost you $300.00 to fly DOWN to Haiti to get it at that price!"
> >
> > Big deal, Barry, so you get subsidized health care at $290 per
> > year. You do realize, don't you, that it is subsidized and there
> > is no free lunch and that someone is paying for it...like maybe
> > taxes?
>
> The French health care system is not subsidized. It is
> *managed*, in the sense that the government doesn't let
> drug companies or health care providers charge more for
> their services than is generally considered fair, *both*
> by the providers themselves and the citizens.
>
> I am not on the French system, and so the health care
> policy I partake of is purchased from an insurance
> company that *sells* it, fully expecting to make a
> *profit* by selling total health care for 230 Euros
> a year. And they do. That's just what quality health
> care *costs* in a country that isn't run by people who
> try to make unconscionable profits from their fellow
> citizens' misery and ill health.
I'm sorry, Barry, but even in a "managed" health care system (as
long as it's in a non-third-world country) there is NO WAY that you
could get comprehensive health care coverage for so little (unless
maybe you were, literally, 10 years old).
It can't happen...unless you have very high deductibles or high co-
payee fees.
Let's say you went into the hospital for 3 weeks: under your plan,
what would it cost you out of pocket?
>
> The US system of health care is a joke, arguably
> one of the *worst* on the planet in terms of making
> sure that its citizens have equal access to basic
> health care.
> The French system, and several others
> in Europe, are rated by worldwide agencies as among
> the best at providing the same thing.
>
> I used to live in New Mexico, where over 50% of the
> state's population had *no* health care of any kind,
Sigh.
I don't want to get into this for the umpteenth time but, Barry,
many people in New Mexico may not have health INSURANCE but zero
people don't have health care...ALL have it (including illegal
immigrants) via poverty programs such as Medicaid and laws that
require hospitals to treat people regardless of ability to pay who
come through their doors.
Even Michael Moore -- who for years made the same mistake as you do
above -- now corrects himself.
> because they couldn't afford any. I'm sorry, but in
> my book that is the sign of a country and a people
> who have lost their humanity.
>
> Admittedly, the French system wasn't an overnight
> thing. The US has had decades to fuck things up,
> and with all the vested interests trying to make
> a buck off the misery of their fellow man, I really
> don't know if they'll *ever* be able to unfuck it.
> But fortunately I don't have to live with that.
> You do. You can make excuses for it all day, every
> day, if that makes you feel better about America.
> But I don't have to; I don't live there.
>
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