--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > Probably not due to the same mechanism --not even remotely.
> > > Witnessing waking,
> > > > dreaming and sleeping likely don't have any effect on the
> > > functioning of the rostral
> > > > anterior cingulate cortex. Any in CC "not minding" of pain
> isn't
> > > due  not feeling or "caring"
> > > > about the pain, but simply due to the strength of the
> connections
> > > that give rise the CC
> > > > state in the first place.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what you're referring to by "connections,"
> > > but I don't know why shutting down the rACC couldn't be
> > > a side effect of CC.  I wasn't suggesting that disabling
> > > the rACC somehow invoked CC, but rather the reverse.
> > >
> >
> > "Connections" as in neural connections. CC doesn't appear to have
> > anything to do with shutting down any specific part of the brain,
> > but rather with strengthening the long-distance communications of
> > the various parts of the brain in such a way as to support
> > what TMers call "witnessing."
> <snip>
> >
> > Any change in how the brain handles pain in someone in CC probably
> > has nothing to do with changes in how the brain processes pain _per
> > se_, but in how the brain processes ANY strong stimulus: the strong
> > stimulus doesn't overwhelm the brain's ability to maintain the long-
> > distance coherent state that apparently characterizes CC-
> > witnessing. The brain still "feels" pain the same as always --it
> > just doesn't overshadow the global coherence state.
> But read what the reporter says about the rACC again:
> "The rACC...plays a critical role in the awareness of the nastiness
> of pain: the feeling of dislike for it, a loathing so intense that
> you are immediately compelled to try to make it stop."
> Not awareness of pain, but awareness of the "nastiness"
> of pain.

So someone in CC doesn't think that pain is nasty?

> I'd suggest it wouldn't be a matter of CC "shutting
> down" the rACC, but rather of not triggering its
> activity in the first place.  The rACC seems to be a
> mechanism for making you take action to neutralize
> whatever is causing the pain *because pain is often
> a signal that the integrity of the physical organism
> is being threatened*.

And this would be a bad thing because?

> But if you aren't attached to the physical organism
> because you identify with the Self rather than the
> self, you don't need that alarm system to make you
> perceive the pain as intolerably unpleasant so you
> spring into action to neutralize it.  Whatever is
> causing the pain is no longer a threat to your
> survival because you don't experience your physical
> survival as necessary for your existence.

Which is a plain stupid thing for CC to do from an evolutionary perspectie and isn't
supported by any research that I'm aware of. CC doesn't prevent one from feeling things or
worrying about things. All CC appears to be is the establishment of sufficient connectivity
in the brain to maintain the stability of Pure Consciousness regardless of whatever
transitory mental states are going on, including, one presumes, pain and pleasure.

> So the rACC, or at least its function of making pain
> unpleasant (it may have other functions), would become
> irrelevant as a kind of side effect of CC, in this
> formulation.  There's no longer a *need* for pain to
> be an "overwhelming" sensation.
> Just a guess...

There's no "side effect" to CC: its just the brain better maintaining the global connectivity
of Pure Consciousness along with  the normal activation of various states whether major
states like waking, dreaming and sleeping, or localized activiations like paying attention to
music, thought or pain or pleasure. CC isn't something UNusual --its just plain old
normalcy at its most normal. The rACC or whatever doesn't change its activiation much, if
any, in CC. The brain becomes a bit more efficient in CC, but CC doesn't lead to some
drastic increase or decrease of the activation levels of the various parts of the brain
outside of TM practice --they just work *together* more efficiently.

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