--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Comment below:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <shempmcgurk@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> 
> > > wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > He's quite explicit in his Gita commentary that the
> > > > enlightened person's actions are what Nature "wants,"
> > > > but that the person doesn't necessarily grasp the
> > > > *reason* why Nature "wants" him to do or say this or
> > > > that; it's just automatic and spontaneous.
> > > 
> > > Mark David Chapman described his experience of shooting John Lennon 
> > > as one where he was watching what he was doing as a separate entity 
> > > from himself.
> > 
> > Pathological dissociation and "witnessing" a la TM
> > may sound similar in verbal descriptions but are very
> > different things.
> >
> **END**
> I don't feel that's necessarily so.  It's not implausible that certain
> individuals have clear experiences of transcendence and witnessing,
> but without the philosophical grounding or preparation for what those
> experiences are, and consequently their psychology can't handle it. 

Extreme intellectual discomfort, as MMY characterizes this situation,  usually 
doesn't lead 
to violence. In fact, since witnessing is associated with a CALM state of mind 
and behavior, 
to suggest that it would spontaneously lead to violence is without grounds. 
There's no 
evidence that enlightened people are spontaneously violent. There's plenty of 
that they become LESS prone to irrational anger and other irrational behavior.

> If, for some reason, they have some pathology or violent tendencies
> then they may act on them. 

Save that wintessing, by its very nature, appears to normalize such tendencies. 
I question 
the assumption that someone with such a pathology can even become enlightened 
and if 
they DO have some temporary episode of witnessing, such an episode, on its 
face, seems 
entirely opposed to the violent/pathological tendencies of such a person. 
Witnessing, ala 
TM, is a state where the various parts of the brain are functioning in harmony 
and health. 
Pathology, by definition, is the exact opposite.

The EEG studies show this over and over. TM shows EEG coherence and balance 
parts of the brain. While some pathological states like epilepsy also show EEG 
the activity is radically different. There are no "spikes" in meditator's EEG 
Transcendence, for example: there's just slow, restful alertness.

Thalamic activity during epilepsy can become hyper. During TM, it tends to 
become less --
a kind of sensory deprivation of the SUBTLE senses rather than merely cutting 
off outside 

 Certain drugs or drug combinations, or
> even acting out behaviors well outside the norms and taboos of society
> may serve as the stimulus.
> Hannibal Lecter as a force of nature.

Everyone is a force of nature, by definition, but Lecter couldn't become 
enlightened and 
remain pathological, at least in the way that he apparently was. Whereever 
there is obvious 
physiological correlation with such dysfunctional behavior, it's always in the 
direction of 
fragmentation and imbalanced activity.

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