Abutilon108, It was Gangaji's use of language that made me say that hypnotic states were being invoked. Same with MMY or the Tarrot reader down the street. It is a style of language designed to shift awareness, not to inform about specifics, and it follows very precise and obvious rules. Turqs' points bring out some more interesting depth about what is meant by hypnotic states vs the various models of higher states of consciousness.
I don't think the jury is in about what hypnotic states mean, or how they relate to the concept of higher states in traditional cultures. I can be sure that someone is using hypnotic language, but I am not sure about what states that invokes or what it all means. It may be two ways of looking at the same thing. When I say that my experiences in TM can be explained by hypnosis, I don't mean it in a flip reductionist's view that it is "just hypnosis" as if that word magically reduces the experiences people have to pure hokum. One of my goals in posting here is to re-visit my understanding of these states and to think about them. One thing I do believe is that once hypnotic states are in play, then they come with some of the limitations and conditions that we do know something about from work from guys like Milton Erickson and the NLP guys Grinder and Bandler who studied his work in order to teach the techniques and language form to therapists. The content of those subjective experiences is extremely fluid and our ability to distinguish between something we experience outside ourselves and something we internally generate, with or without conscious participation is severely impaired. The false memory syndrome of abuse which sent many people to jail wrongly is a cautionary tale concerning how important it is to know the limits of gaining knowledge once hypnotic states are invoked. The reliability of knowledge isn't just an academic question. Another example is that hypnotic therapy techniques have been found to be very quick in making a person believe they have solved a personal problem that does not hold up over time. When I studied hypnotic therapy, it lead me to the conclusion that the use of hypnotic language in the TM teaching process, and in the techniques themselves, would have to be taken into account in my understanding of how those experiences should effect my epistemology. I was forced to re-assess how I should view the experiences I was having with those techniques. I don't think that the relatively new area of hypnosis has all the answers, just that it should be taken into consideration. Guys like Milton Erickson are, for me, at least as profound a contributer to the understanding of human consciousness as any of the Indian gurus. Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. --- In [email protected], "abutilon108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > Thanks for your impressions. The language form she uses is clearly > > meant to shift states of awareness. It would work better in a room > > where you didn't have other entertainment options pulling at you, I > > suspect. It is deadly on TV with a remote in my hand. But is does > > seem to utilize some good hypnotic therapy techniques, so it doesn't > > surprise me that people find it has value. Some of her sessions seem > > like watching someone in therapy going through a process. > > Thank you so much for this observation, Curtis. I was very involved > with Gangaji for several years, and still find myself processing the > experience from time to time, just as I do my many years of > involvement with the TMO. This is very insightful. > > I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to > feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they > took for "awakening". Of course, everyone has a different idea of > what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said > people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that > awakening.) In any case, it seemed what Gangaji had experienced was > transitory - like any experience that comes and goes. It seems to me > that awakening, to be a truly meaningful shift, would entail a > transition that is permanent. > > Gangaji always emphasized the need for "vigilance" -- that a person > would have an "awakening" that they would then need to sustain through > a process of vigilance. In other words, this awakening could occur > and then be lost without effort to maintain it. > > The description of Gangaji's interactions as being hypnotic really > seems to zero in on something. She speaks in a rather hynotic way and > can be very charming (to some) and poetic. I think a lot of people > become infatuated with her image. > > Well -- there's lots more percolating thanks to your remarks. Thanks! > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
