Of course from a modern, western, rationally enlightened perspective, the caste
system is rediculous and even offensive. The question remains: how can we
adapt the good that comes from SBS and M. From Emerson thru the followers of
Sri Ramakrishna in Los Angeles in the 1920-30's until today, middle-class
Americans have been adapting this stuff. So, what shall we do that is new?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 2/26/2007 12:55:33
P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The more you think about it, how appropriate M. looks as a
representative of SBS to the west. Overall he did a pretty successful job I'd
say! The question now is: what are we going to do with it?
curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lou: > Guru Dev was not a
supporter of the caste system. He said he
was because he was dealing with the
collective consciousness of India. He did wait awhile before taking
the seat. As a teacher in a dark age you have to speak the language of
the audience. If you don't no one will listen and judgement sets in
and people don't like you anymore. He knew that if he said the caste
system was not appropriate for spiritual evolution
that the people of India would have spit on him. It's a funny
business. The teacher ends up being at the mercy of their audience and
ends up after death with all kinds of stories and opinions that are
either truthful or not.
ME: Gandhi was an opponent to the caste system and was,and still is,
revered as a saint in India, although not by MMY for his anti-caste
position.
MMY has spoken in support of the caste system on many occasions.
He has also spoken about Guru Dev's support of the caste system.
It was part of his job description as Shankaracharya, to uphold
the caste system. MMY spent a few lectures in India in 1980 speaking
about the value of the caste system.
You are arguing a fantasy perspective of MMY with people who have
spent (in Rick's case) considerable time with the guy.
Lou: I know how Guru Dev feels because as a teacher " I have taught
Yoga and meditation since 1995" I can see how people will have their
own opinions and judgements about what you say.
Me: I've spent a considerable amount of time under a beach umbrella
so I know how Guru Dev feels too.
You tend to twist what I say around to suit your own thoughts and
feelings Rick. You have all the answers. Now-how do we stop all of the
violence in the world from manifesting? Please don't give me the
non-dualism stuff to avoid answering the question.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2007 9:17:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: FairfieldLife@ FairfieldLi FairfieldLife@<WBR>yahoogr
FairfieldLife@
> FairOn Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 5:06 PM
> To: FairfieldLife@ FairfieldLi Fa
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF meets with Bevan
>
>
>
>
>
> Guru Dev is not at all happy with the way MMY is running the
organization. I
> remember when I worked for Deepak who hired a Tony Robbins sales
person to
> come in and call people up and try to get them to sign up for his
Seductive
> Seminar. Guru Dev is not happy with exploiting the teachings for
profit. He
> would rather see us all work together and unify our commonalities
rather than
> create more dualism. Remember, it was his master who encouraged him
to take the
> seat of the Shankacharya.
> No it wasn't. He became Shankaracharya when he was 70. His master
was long
> gone. His master initiated him into Sanyasa at the age of 30 or so.
> A soul who have tasted the transcendent has no use in caste systems.
> As I understand it, Guru Dev was a staunch supporter of the caste
system.
> He was uncomfortable with the whole arrangement which he avoided
for years.
>
> How do you know? Did he tell you?
> I would seek his blessings and console when trying to deal with
feelings
> towards MMY. I will always love MMY. The TMO and MMY cannot take
away the
> profound effect they have had on my life. I will let divine
judgment do the
> evaluation of MMY and give MMY the space to work out his own
evolution. Regardless
> if he lies or is motivated solely by money, or he has sexual
affairs with
> women or whoever is non-of my business. Everyone is evaluated at
some point and
> given proper guidelines to help them try again to do it better the
next time.
> I agree with all that.
> The unvarnished truth? Well, that you won't find until you give it
> completely up to the one without a second.
> I'm not talking about that kind of truth. Iââ¬â¢m just referring to
simple facts
> about MMY or the Movement. I don't take a TB point of view, nor to
I take a
> TM-Ex point of view. If some point about MMY or the TMO comes up,
my only
> consideration is whether or not itââ¬â¢s true. I don't have an agenda
which would
> cause me to support one theory or another, in order to preserve
some attitude,
> positive or negative. There are people on this forum which do that
all the
> time ââ¬" Nabulous with has ââ¬Åspotless saintââ¬Â perspective ââ¬"
others who don't give
> MMY a shred of credit or all the good heââ¬â¢s done.
> Leaders from India should work together and all meditate at the
same time.
> We would have the ME overnight and allow the so called Enlightened
masters
> such as Amachi, SSRS, Mother Meera and whoever else is out their to
create world
> peace by working together. By working together. By working
together. By
> working together.
> They are working together. They donââ¬â¢t have to meld their
organizations.
> And, if enlightened masters cannot work together to create world
peace then
> it is impossible to create world peace. This is unvarnished truth.
Praise the
> Lord.Love and Light. Lou Valentino PS: You still haven't answered my
> question-" If Amachi's hugs are that powerful then why are you still
looking for
> the unvarnished truth". Try to answer the question Rick because I'm
trying to
> answer yours. Your avoidance technique is not working for me.
>
>
>
> I donââ¬â¢t understand the question. Or you donââ¬â¢t understand what I
mean by ââ¬Å
> unvarnished truth.ââ¬Â I think I explained it above. Thereââ¬â¢s no
reason why my
> involvement with Amma should cause me to want to take refuge in
fanciful
> notions, in order to preserve some emotional attachment.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Guru Dev was not a supporter of the caste system. He said he was
because
> he was dealing with the
> collective consciousness of India. He did wait awhile before taking
the
> seat. As a teacher in a dark age you have to speak the language of
the audience.
> If you don't no one will listen and judgement sets in and people
don't like
> you anymore. He knew that if he said the caste system was not
appropriate for
> spiritual evolution
> that the people of India would have spit on him. It's a funny
business. The
> teacher ends up being at the mercy of their audience and ends up
after death
> with all kinds of stories and opinions that are either truthful or not.
>
> I know how Guru Dev feels because as a teacher " I have taught Yoga
and
> meditation since 1995" I can see how people will have their own
opinions and
> judgements about what you say. You tend to twist what I say around
to suit your
> own thoughts and feelings Rick. You have all the answers. Now-how do
we stop
> all of the violence in the world from manifesting? Please don't
give me the
> non-dualism stuff to avoid answering the question.
>
> Organizations are working together when they are emphasizing
meditation at
> the exact same time in all of the groups to generate enough silence.
Silence
> would be the primary aspect that binds all of the spiritual groups
together.
> They are not doing that now. The spiritual teachers of today are
spending most
> of their time figuring out how they can raise enough money to keep
their own
> organizations alive to pay the rent. So many spiritual leaders with
their own
> thoughts regarding their own experiences of enlightenment have
inspired many
> people but none of them get along that well. MMY was with
Muktananda at one
> point and their were pictures taken. MMY had everyone throw away any
pictures
> of them together. My point: their own traditions do not allow them
to merge.
> They get caught up in dualism and thinking that the students will be
> confused because the paths are different.
>
> And, most of the teachers know how to sell their traditions well but
still
> have not found a way for the wars to stop. With Guru Mai it's her
magical touch
> of the finger or peacock feather, with Amachi it's her magical
hugs, with
> MMY it's his magical secret mantras, with SSRS it's his magical
breathing
> technique, with Sathya Sai Baba it's his magical manifestations,
with Mother Meera
> it's her magical transference of divine light, etc...... And the wars
> continue. People are running here and there for the magical
experience of
> enlightenment and the traditions of India seems to feed on this. I
have and still do
> participate in many of these traditions but the leaders are not
emphasizing
> enough that everyone is special not just Avatars or Maharishi's.
Everyone is a
> leader and the need for people to lead at this point instead of
just sitting
> back and waiting for enlightenment or for someone else to do it for
them is
> so vital for world peace.
>
> The day when all of the teachers from India come together on the
same stage
> with all of their devotees present will be the day that world peace
dawns. I
> call this " Simplify the Mind Organization" which brings all forms of
> meditation under the same roof and will be inviting all teachers
from all traditions
> to join in at the same time to meditate together regardless of
where they
> are. No other teacher has presented this as they are so busy with
their own
> organizations and techniques. The paths of devotion are coming to an
end because
> we are moving into
> Sat Yuga which will be more obvious from 2008-2012. MMY will pass
over,
> space ships will be landing in
> Fairfield Iowa and a new wave of inspiration will be coming from
other races
> more advanced than us. The teachers of today are holding everything
together
> in preparation for an expanded version of how to live life without
violence
> on this planet. I will be helping the Pleadians introduce this new
system of
> life as well as many others. Until then, life goes on. As Tom Petty
put it in
> one of his songs " The waiting is the hardest part".
>
> Anyway, Rick I know you have all of the answers and I don't want to
continue
> to feel like I am trying to convince you that anything I say has any
truth
> to it. I appreciate your responses and look forward to hugging you.
Your hug
> will be just as valuable as Amachi's is. Lsoma.
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now
offers free
> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
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> Yes, Guru Dev and MMY speak good things about the caste system only to
please the consciousness of India. India in many ways is backwards in
progressive thinking. I believe OSHO has written much about how conservative
India had become. Guru Dev was approached for years in the jungles and was not
comfortable with all of the label stickers. MMY is still holding onto the
dogmatic approach because he is a volunteer from the beginning levels of the
fifth dimension. The puja is not necessary to initiate someone. I still do it
for
myself but it only adds more confusion to the public and one of the reasons
why TM has lost popularity with the school systems. The Holy Tradition which
started about 70,000 years ago in the 2nd Epic of Atlantis did not base their
teachings around anyone or anything outside of the Self. MMY is a bit
religious. I love the religious aspect because I have both Mercury (Ruler of my
Rising) and my Sun in the 9th house. Anyway,
it wasn't even called the Vedic tradition until the Aryan race entered India.
If you don't believe me then find
a person who can read into the Akashic Records. Ask them about the Holy
Tradition. Not just the extended
version from India but where it started in Atlantis. Again, Enlightened souls
have very little care about the labels and are very patient with students who
continue to believe that structure has anything to do with pure awareness. In a
past life as a politician in India I was against the caste system which creates
inequality by emphasising the differences in people. Anywhere where there is
the need to feel that someone else is above another is a part of the ego. The
Pope comes to mind and his administration. I was killed by a Brahman in that
lifetime for speaking up. In the present i visit a Lakshmi temple in Ashland,
MA and love the
Hindu performances and the devotional quality towards Lakshmi and the other
gods. I try not to judge anyone
else's level of growth by the caste system. Even Guru Dev or MMY felt the
caste system is valuable, I am disagreeing with them. Those who are truly
evolved have grown out of the cradles of structure. Lsoma.
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