--- In [email protected], off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You truly have to be mentally insane to call someone a > terrorist for disagreeing with you on a forum. Truly, > the man is mad, and anywhere in the noraml world he > would be ridiculed into oblivion for such fascist- > like statements.
I've been intentionally staying out of this, because I'm just back from a fun mini-vacation and don't feel like diving back into the mud, but I'll make two comments and then post a few examples and then bow out. As I see it, the concept of a forum like this one is intellectual *exchange*, not intellectual *debate*. To assume that the latter is appropriate, one has to assume that one is "right," that one "knows" the "truth" about something. I do not assume that I have that ability (to know the "truth" about situations regarding spirituality), but obviously some here *do* assume that about themselves, and try their best to turn almost *every* pleasant discussion into a head-to-head battle to prove who is "right." That strikes me as pretty unevolved. The other thing that strikes me as pretty unevolved is the tendency on the part of these people (which is barely even *disguised* at this point) to avoid any discussion of the intellectual *points* that their "enemies" bring up, and just go straight for the throat, in the form of insulting or demonizing them. Lately Paul has been the main victim of this, but of course others have been targets of it in the past. I personally see it as "last ditch" panic on the part of a few people whose intellectual world is crumbling about them, and who don't like that much, so they put all their energy into trying to demonize the people who have come to believe the very things that *they* are coming to believe, but are still afraid to *admit* that they believe. Bottom line is their own words. I'm really tired of collecting all the THINGS TMers BELEVE quotes; just cutting and pasting them is an afront to the senses, but here are the last of them. Lets' allow those who are being talked about in these recent posts to speak for themselves, in their own "defense," IN THEIR OWN WORDS: "No sane person spends time compiling things like this. It's beyond right or wrong - it's pathological. Get a life. Now." Same person: "Yawn, I don't keep track of every muse of the twisted meanderings of a mega-poster, I just rattle in now and again with something rational. Not something you seem to have a flare for if you think I fell into his so called 'trap'.......OOOooooooo." "Wow, what kind of born-again fanatic goes to all the trouble of compiling something of so little significance?" "Good point ! This B fellow seems to be oneofakind. It's alkohol, no ? B seems to enjoy the cheap french vino..." "He's [TM critic, the compiler of this list of quotes] never been able to handle challenges to his opinions; his freakouts typically occur when he's been getting more opposition than usual. This time I think there's just been too much of it for him to deal with. Whether alcohol is exacerbating things, who knows?" To a person he's never met, in *any* city, but who compiled this list of quotes, many of which are his: "Besides, I am pissed off that my post that said that I saw you staggering along on the streets of Paris, clutching an almost empty bottle of wine, and mumbling over and over something about 'TM bastards'......that post never made the list." "I think he [the compiler of this list, on which her quotes appear consistently, and about which quotes he has made absolutely no comment] may be having a breakdown. He's always had periodic freakouts, but I've never seen him in such a manic, irrational tizzy." Same person: "Wanted to add that I'm pretty sure B doesn't behave like this [that is, quoting *her* words and those of others like her] in his everyday life. Internet forums are an outlet so that he *doesn't* behave like a monster otherwise." Same person, after writing dozens of lines 'analyzing' the person who had done nothing more than quote her, and other TMers like her, and who didn't respond to her 'analysis' except to collect more of her quotes: "I'm sure he'll 'intuit' some conclusions about me right back. Y'all can decide which of us has the clearer mind..." On the suggestion that these issues be archived: "Good idea. Then any rational person looking at it in the future will be able to conclude the extent of the ego-centrical nature of the posessed anti-TM fanatics. Believe me, any person of insight will quickly conclude that this is a fundamentalists fanaticism ranting at a group of fairly reasonable people who have normal civilized disagreements and bantor with each other." Responding to the person who suggested that this series of quotes be archived, two different long-term TMers: -- "You just outed yourself, R." -- "Just what I was thinking. Moral vacuum time." Responding to a person who had said: "No one has any higher moral ground here." -- "Only someone who, like R [founder of the TM-related forum on which criticism of TM is allowed], is living in a moral vacuum could say such a thing. P.S. Sod off." Reacting to someone posting a link to a talk by one of the world's most famous Buddhist scholars Robert Thurman: "I am glad Uma's dad is at least thinking about it. It would be better if he did TM though." "B, all of us--including yourself--understand what you're attempting here: you're trying to shut your critics up and suppress the pro-TM viewpoint--the views of the people you have declared to be 'interlopers' on this forum. R approves of this tactic. That speaks for itself." Same person, a few minutes later: "Geez, I certainly don't think it will shut anyone up, least of all me! I'm pointing out that this is what *B* is hoping his quote-posting will accomplish." "B. Heads up, dood. What you're doing is *transparent*. You aren't fooling anybody. All your 'encouragement' for us to keep posting is part of the scheme. *Of course* you're going to deny you're trying to silence us." After having made over a dozen posts on three different Internet forums complaining about her words being supposedly being quoted out of context here: "But I'm not 'upset' about it, to the contrary. B hasn't identified the posters, and if anyone did a search on the words in the quotes to find out who wrote them, they'd also see the context. The point is that it's one of B's typically dishonest tactics. I mention it because it reflects so badly on *him*." Same person, a few minutes later, still not upset: "P.S.: He's even gone so far with some of the quotes as to provide what he *claims* to be context, except that it deliberately misrepresents the actual context. Most people are smart enough not to take seriously isolated quotes collected by someone who obviously has an axe to grind, even if they don't know how dishonest B is. And B's smart enough to know this too. It's just that he's not smart enough to realize his grandstanding here gives the game away and makes it clear that the exercise is aimed at the TMers on FFL, his critics in particular." "V is an ignorant fool- it has been proved time and again here. Say what you will about me. Who the f*ck cares?" "It is pretty funny/sad. Oh well J is in it to drum up money from all the TM 'victims' out there. I wsh him well in his dependent/co-dependent quest." "Looks like you've found your Bible V -- blah, blah, blah..." Mr. Fully Self Realized: "In San Francisco the word is among those working in the business district to not even look at the pandhandlers, unless you want to be followed down the street by someone cursing you for not paying up. Before I knew that, I tried to talk to a homeless guy around Union Square and ended up being called a 'mf' because I wouldn't give him more than a buck. Cheery bunch." "If he [Guru Dev] had been living in the US, no one would have known of his existence nor tried to appoint him to anything. He would have passed away quietly; no TM, no Maharishi, no TMO, no FFL forum. Nothing except a nuclear holocaust." "While the authenticity of research papers done by TM TB'ers is questionable, the fact remains that TM is far superior to any single Buddhist technique available. In the distant future, Buddhists in droves (including all the monks you see in those TV ads where they gather around a laptop) will embrace TM. That's a fact!." Upon hearing of a movie to be made about Maharishi and the Beatles, reacting to the person who posted it, and who has nothing to do with the movie: "May you enjoy the same success in your endeavour brownnose your way to write the script for this film as you have had becoming the TMO's official biographer. Not." Over a week after the last issue of THINGS TMers BELIEVE was posted, still "not upset" about it: "You didn't ask me, but I'll tell you: I thought the person who presented the quotes, shorn of their context, as if the posters and their words represented TM and Maharishi, was in a very, very, *very* low state of attention--far lower than the posters themselves when they wrote what he posted, and lower even than when he penned the vicious attacks that many of the posters were responding to. The whole project was bottom of the barrel, state-of-attention-wise, including his bleating and chest-beating about it on FFL, which so clearly revealed the real motivation behind it: to intimidate TM supporters, especially his critics, into shutting up. No, wait, the real motivation wasn't just bottom of the barrel, it was way *beneath* the barrel. The one positive aspect to it was that it exposed the ugly depths of this person's habitual state of attention." "Note, by the way, that *all* of this is B's attempt to divert attention from the issue of his extraordinarily low-vibe behavior with regard to his 'What TMers Believe' posts, including blatant dishonesty, gross hypocrisy, and attempted censorship." In response to the above: "Can't blame him for that really. The fellow needs his monthly paycheck to pay for expenses and vino." "So keen on trying to prove himself, this intellectual fake representing himself as V, responds to his own postings. Pathetic. V's MO is also a comment on what is so wrong with this Freemason, Illuminati; Satanist; wannabe-TMer (pick your choice) compared to Maharishi's approach to teaching. MMY's programs are experienced-based, very well suited to householders and open to all. It should come as no surprise that such an openhearted approach makes a secterian like V so uncomfortable. After all, in V's world, knowledge is something to be denied others and preferably used a stick to beat others with." "In my mind a TMer is someone who regularly practices TM as taught by His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Having once been initiated but not practizing makes you a non-TMer, or perhaps in the minds of some folk, an ex-TMer. Then there is the special category of folks who claim to be meditating, or to be medtitating, or to have been initiated and not meditating - and who spend time on this list attacking TM. I think the real question is: Who are _these_ people?" Asked to explain her quotes "Folks who abandon their animals should be shot, BTW." and "I shoot the messenger when the messenger deserves to be shot." -- "Those really all you could find in a search for 'shot' in my posts? Here are some more you might try: hanged decapitated stabbed to death nuked drowned wiped out castrated beaten to a bloody pulp smashed into a little grease spot torn limb from limb I'm sure I can come up with some others. I'll let you know." Repeated several times, as if it were a mantra: "Were you under the impression that this refutes anything I've been saying?" 'Explaining' why he was banned from Wikipedia for vandalizing the entries on TM and Maharishi: "I left, that's what happened. Had I wanted to stay I would still be there (believed I proved this point on two ocassions after leaving). What happened is that I was ambushed by (1) a bunch of wikipedia admins that would have put Stalin's prosecutor Andrei Vyshinsky to shame; and (2) a couple of adamant anti-TMers that owned licenses to break wikipedia rules with impunity; and (2)" [verbatim] Continuing with his 'explanation' [again verbatim]: "...MUM faculty ... completely embarrased ... ? I think I just realized where Vaj might have gotten his idea about TM-Nazis from. Whatever your problem is, Sparaig. It's not mine. I represent only myself. My take on MMY and his teachings should be evident when reading my postings here. And please don't label me a 'pro-TMer.' It's over ten years since I handed in my resignation. If that is what you are, a TMO bureacrat, do accept (1) my deepest respect for accepting the shite work of dealing with the stresses of the world; and (2) my condolences for yourself being so overshadowed by these same stresses that you've lost sight of what's important." Same person, still ranting after being taken to task by a fellow TMer, Sp: "Take 2: A TMer is a person who has learnt and regularly practices TM as taught by His Holiness MMY. Period. Are you drunk? Maybe you're just a lazy as your drawl is Texan. Before passing judgement on people, get your facts straight re who has said what. The fact is that you and I are on the same side when it comes to MMY (unless there are skeletons in your closet I am not aware of). That is also the reason your pencil- dicked friend Sp is so hysterical and keeps returning to my Wiki-period: for P's objecting through editing to the systematic MMY/TMO slandering at Wiki. You see, Sp is an hypocrite who feels form is more important than content. He would rather see the TMO's founder accused of pedophilia than himself fall out of any imaginary grace with the inquisition at Wikipedia. Sp is also a coward since he rather stab TMers in their backs rather than to speak up against the rouge anti-TM disinformers out there. With 'friends' like Sp - who needs enemies?" "But there is another point. The Beatles did not understand that He [Maharishi...capitalization the TMer's] wanted to use them and their fame for a higher Good, for the enlightenment and upliftment of the youth at that time. Their egos and sense of "independence" panicked. Stuck in their vision of themselves as famous and forever young and creative they descided to split. Confronted with great saints like Maharishi most people do. Only a few old souls stay put, ready for new opportunities. These are souls that have been through the same process of challenge and purification, life after life. Now they very well might be harvesting what they sowed for so long. Thanks to the shakti that Guru Dev passed on to Maharishi, and which He passes on to the masses of the World. George, Ringo and Paul did adknowledge Maharishi, decades after they were challenged and had the opportunity. A tad too late, but still, better than many on this list." Told that so many of his quotes were going to be included in the next issue that he almost has it all to himself: "All you have to do to make that happen is to pretend that PK [him] does not represent neither the TMO nor your average TMer. Since the alternative, to start a blog called THINGS PK BELIEVE [sic] is not a healthy option for yourself (the only way you will be able to pay me off after my lawyers are done with you, is to kill yourself and sell your empty brain to science), maybe you should just put a sock in your French little faggot mouth and forget about it" Same 20+ year TMer: "Thank God for the Nazis and Commies - at least there were two credible enemies that kept the wheels of the illuminati-military-industrial complex spinning." I would try to provide a context for this quote by the same person, but I can not figure one out; it appears neither to follow from what he was replying to OR make any sense: "That's because if their propaganda make allegations people believe fabricated they loose credibility." Reacting to the suggestion that Maharishi's dalliances with women plus lying about it afterwards "casts doubt on the validity of many things he has said": -- "Now, please think for a moment. This is exactly what the proffessional crititc wants you to think. They want you to doubt your own experience of good meditations and stop you from experiencing your real Self. This is their job. They are paid to sow doubt in your heart. They fear more than anything people like you, who experience for themselves that 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within'. Do not let them intimidate you. Be brave and patient. Have confidence. Continue your meditations. Log off this site." First speaker is me, the second one of the frequent contributors to this compilation of quotes: > > I *told* you guys why I was compiling these lists > > of quotes, and the three worst offenders chose not > > to believe me. > > Think that could possibly be because you have > such a striking record of chronic, vicious > dishonesty, especially in your attacks on TMers, > especially your critics on this forum? > > > I'm doing it because 1) these quotes > > may warn away a few people from getting involved with > > the TMO, and 2) to give the worst offenders (you, Judy > > and Nablus) a taste of what it's like to be a TM teacher, > > and to have every word you speak and action you perform > > be regarded as a commercial for -- or against -- some- > > thing you believe in. > > Or maybe because what you claim your intentions > are is obvious nonsense? > > Or perhaps both?
