I can always count on an interesting, reasoned response from you Marek! Thanks. Really excellent discussion of Guru Dev's private funding.
In my own case, my life of privilege made it easier for me to renounce it and become a monk for MMY. I didn't really understand the hard earned value of the life my father had provided. That perspective has been corrected big time in the ensuing decades! I give GD less credit for feeling as if he didn't need to worry about money, that it would come to him. Lots of rich kids believe this. Most of the fulltime people I worked with in Sidhaland came from good families with plenty of cash. It can make you more confident to take the risk of a road less traveled. As I have said before, I am not impressed with his minimalistic camping skills. I know guys who pull that off here too. I view this magic money claim as significant. It may even be the first thread in unraveling a carefully constructed mythology about his life. I think that the very act of using the claim in an advocacy piece in advance of his visit is a blatant manipulation of readers who were in no way able to confirm or refute such a claim. In fact even asking the question would be viewed as an assault on his holiness. This kind of claim is an obvious con and I do believe that Guru Dev was in control of his press, so I doubt it was just MMY doing something stupid without his approval. But it cuts to the quick of what we think about his integrity so it is important. For the story about his integrity to be meaningful one has to believe that he did in fact have a magical source of money as claimed. There were bills to pay in the ashram and I am not sure what exactly is being claimed here. It is purposely vague and leaves the superstitions credulity of the reader to fill in the blanks. That its intention is to prove by a physical claim that Guru Dev has magical powers is clear. It is one of the tools MMY uses to try to convince the reader that they must view GD as a special magical person. Like the claims of Jesus' miracles in the Bible, they play on our confidence in how the world works and uses it to show that he is different from you and I. Like the Bible, if you decide that the physical proof claims lack validity, you can still believe if you want and may may even construct a "reason" why such proof is not needed. But the writer's intention is to use a claim about the physical world to increase credibility. It engages the part of our critical thinking that would rightly be impressed if such a claim was backed by good evidence. Let me put it a different way. I smell a rat here. I believe that MMY was lying about the money thing. We are left with an absurd implication that Guru Dev is a magic money maker. I think that this was a show to build confidence at first. Later when a person was sufficiently hooked, MMY shook them down as efficiently as he has done his own movement all these years. They no doubt welcomed the fleecing and felt special from it. I think MMY has got more than a little PT Barnum in him and I am getting an idea where he may have learned it. I think it does tarnish GD's rep for being so pure and holy to see through a such a ploy. I just need to see the one time that a person bends spoons with magic to conclude that I have seen enough of their "real magic". Perhaps he felt the end justified the means, but I say the means suck. You don't have to tell lies to get people to think of you in a spiritual way do you? Isn't it funny how MMY uses a claim about material conquest as his credibility in the spiritual area. It reminds me of those wealth preachers who use their flamboyant riches as a way to attract people and convince them of their special religious powers. Of course free public lectures are a great way to expand the believer base. I see some spiritual people do this today. They make a big fuss out of refusing money at first, but then they let you give a lot more later when you are an insider. It is a tactic for increasing confidence and is a part of most good confidence games. A good con knows that making a show of not taking the small stuff sets you up for the real killing later. I can hear MMY talking really quickly here: " Of course as you know his Divinity doesn't take any donations, but he does let true devotees fund their own projects. Here are a few projects that you can fund without giving any donations." What do ya bet that there was an elaborate way that non-donations got collected? Seeing this use of ridiculous hype makes me much less apt to see Guru Dev in an innocent light. Since he went from "camper" to being worshiped as a god, I think he just might have gotten sick of sleeping outside. Thanks Marek. You make using one of my posts worth it! --- In [email protected], "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Comment below: > > ** > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > I find it fascinating that MMY's PR uses the implication that Guru > Dev > > had a magical source for money: > > > > "One unique principle of the great Sage that distinguishes him > > completely from other living saints of today is that he does not > > accept money as gift from his visitors or disciples." > > > > Who else thinks that he actually had a silent funder and used this > > deception as a way to make his reputation more inflated. I would > love > > to see someone in this day of money trails try this claim! Or maybe > > he was using the equivalent of an accounting trick. Donations were > > not given to him but to a shell organization that he controlled? > The > > use of this claim alone makes Guru Dev much less sympathetic in my > > mind. It is a physical claim without physical proof. An assertion > of > > a miracle without any evidence. He is now on the level of the dude > > hanging by wires in Africa, bamboozling the rubes with tales of > wonder > > and magic. Maybe he was the one bamboozled by MMY's runaway PR > > machine? The whole piece was such a work of the Carnival Barker's > > art! Even though Guru Dev's magical powers are alluded to, there is > > no chance for a demo. Only those predisposed to belief > > unsubstantiated claims are really being invited. > > > > It is interesting that MMY felt compelled to elevate his own teacher > > above other saints: > > > > "One unique principle of the great Sage that distinguishes him > > completely from other living saints of today is that he does not > > accept money as gift from his visitors or disciples." > > > > A common theme for the rest of his Don King style life: he has the > > best, biggest, most wonderful, truest, purest, la di F'n da! > > > > Now isn't that speeeeeaaaaaciaaaaaal. Not! > > > > > **snip to end** > > Curtis, excellent two posts (this one and the earlier one on the > levitating shaman), and like you, I see them as related. > > And first off, I have to say that when I watched the video of the > shaman doing his stuff I noted (as did Rick) that he waited till the > beginning of nightfall before starting the ritual, that he had that > fire ring (which, besides looking impressive and magical, would also > interfere with good night vision and help hide wires or dark, non- > reflective props), and that he seemed to be swinging or dangling > rather than floating. Nevertheless, I found myself wanting to > believe it. > > And I've always liked the Guru Dev self-sufficiency thing and story > of the magical box given him by Ma Ganga (or some other form of > Mother Divine) that allowed him to produce any amount of money as and > when needed. I've asked Paul Mason in the past whether or not he had > ever heard about what inheritance Guru Dev may have been a > beneficiary of (since he has spoken with members of Guru Dev's > family). Paul told me no. I asked because the bios all say that > Rajaram was the only son (or only child) of his parents and that they > were well off, affluent landholders and landlords. Born with a > silver spoon in his mouth, so to speak, which makes his renunciation > all that more impressive as well as an echo of Buddha's own > abandonment of his princely life. > > It doesn't seem unlikely to me that he had access to a substantial > amount of liquid assets inherited from his parents. He had earlier, > before his ascension to the throne of Jyotirmath, already established > an ashram and Sanskrit school in memory of his own guru, Swamiji > Krishnanand, and that definitely required some cash assets, too. > > Bottom line is that I love the feeling of him having supernormal > powers but it's not necessary for me to believe in them because there > seems to be an alternative explanation that is neither unreasonable > nor requires the supernormal to explain his financial self- > sufficiency. > > More importantly to me, however, is the fact that regardless of how > he was able to generate so much cash, by all the accounts I have ever > read or heard of, he did live a life of simple austerity and purity > of purpose from which he never deviated. He talked the talk and > walked the walk. > > Marek >
