--- In [email protected], "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --So which is it? Suffering is eliminated, or is it reduced?
As I understand it, suffering is *transcended*. "You" (whoever "you" is) become identified with That which cannot suffer, which is beyond the plane of suffering. The small-s self may continue to experience suffering, but "you" simply witness the suffering taking place because "you" are no longer identified with the self. That's what they say, at any rate. The "evidence" is the subjective reports of those who are in that state of identification with Self rather than self. > Occasionally, a scale of 1 to 10 is used in questionnaires to rank > one's subjective level of suffering....say migraines. > Are you saying that with a rank of "k" or below, suffering is > eliminated, but reduced if it's above "k" level? Or, are you saying > that anything - 10 or below - can be eliminated? What's your evidence > for this? > > > > - In [email protected], "Marek Reavis" <reavismarek@> > wrote: > > > > Comment at bottom: > > > > ** > > > > --- In [email protected], "claudiouk" <claudiouk@> > wrote: > > > > > > "Ignorance is only apparent, it isn't real" - I know, > fundamentally > > > and philosophically this is supposed to be so and yes one can > > > appreciate the "cleverness" in that magical trick - it's only a > rope > > > that appears like a snake etc; but experientially suffering is > real > > > enough. The deception then becomes not playful but unimaginably > > > cruel. And there is just smugness in the philosophy, no real > > > compassion, unfortunately. It's voyeurism on the part of the > Self - > > > witnessing like in a peep show, at safe distance, whilst the > whole of > > > creation is left languishing in despair.. > > > > > **snip to end** > > > > It's not the cleverness of the philosophy that removes the sting of > > suffering but the realization that you can truly remove your > attention > > from the suffering. And that's done just by putting attention on > > attention. > > > > Think of all the surgeries that take place while the patients' > > attention is removed from the physical plane. It would all be the > most > > hideous of torture except that the patient isn't allowed to feel > it. > > So is that suffering? The same act done with the patient's > attention > > allowed to be drawn to it would result in great suffering, but > remove > > attention and there is no suffering. > > > > And if you have children, do you remember when they were very young > and > > they had bad dreams and how scary and upsetting that was for them? > > Sure, of course, right? But you knew that it was just a dream and > that > > there was no "real" hurt that happened or could happen. But even > so, > > weren't you still full of compassion for their emotional pain and > > suffering, even knowing that the cause wasn't real? Of course you > > were; all any parent wants to do is soothe and comfort their > child. > > > > No matter how terrible and scary and hurtful life can be, and is > for > > all of us at one time or another, suffering evaporates like nothing > and > > *is* nothing when attention is removed from it. When attention > gets > > drawn to itself on a regular basis then it begins to insinuate > itself > > into every situation and creates a kind of lubrication that reduces > the > > friction (pain) of experience. Kind of like a mag-lev train, or a > > hydraulic cushion between the experiencer and the experience such > that > > suffering is eliminated or reduced. > > >
