--- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, Vaj, my concept is so superior to your
> experience! Think it and weep!
Well said, Peter.
That's the thing that so amazes me here sometimes,
and makes me wonder about spiritual traditions that
claim to not only have all the answers, but the
*definitive* answers.
In Boulder, CO, back when he was alive, Chogyam
Trungpa sponsored a number of "Holy Man Jams."
The schtick was to invite noted spiritual teachers
from different traditions and put them up on stage
together to discuss spirituality. I never got to
attend any of them, but several close friends who
did said that they were a hoot, because almost
without exception (Trungpa himself being one), they
almost always devolved into arguments.
Different teachers from different Hindu traditions
would argue over nitpicky details or interpretations
of nitpicky esoteric concepts that only they cared
about. Different Buddhist teachers would argue over
similar nitpicky details. And naturally they would
argue across traditions. But the bottom line is that
almost without exception they would argue, and the
bottom line of *each and every participant* in the
arguments was Peter's wonderful line above, delivered
with pretty much the same "Fuck you!" inflection that
he managed to put into his post -- "My concept is
better than your concept (or experience). Read it
and weep!"
I consider myself fortunate to have run into a few
teachers who didn't argue, and train their students
to do the same. The reason is that they never *taught*
that "This concept is better than another concept."
They never *taught* that "This technique is better
than another technique." They never taught "better"
at all, just "This is how things look from this point
of view, and this is how the *same* things look from
this other point of view...both are valid, and many
others are valid, too."
I understand that there are many who seem to enjoy
believing that they've "got all the answers." Maharishi
is certainly one of them ("Every question is a perfect
opportunity for the answer we have already prepared.").
And I can see how that would be comforting for some
people, to believe that they've got the "definitive"
answer to all the questions of life, and the definitive
"How it works" to all the works of creation.
Me, I don't know. It's still a mystery to me, and I
like that just fine. I think that there is just as much
likelihood that someone from a Hindu tradition has as
much of a clue as someone from a Buddhist or Christian
or Muslim tradition does. But at the same time I think
they're all just *clues*. I'm not convinced that *any*
of them have solved the mystery. And the more that they
argue with others and try to assert that they *have*
definitively solved the mystery of life, the *less* I'm
convinced that they have solved the mystery. And the
more I feel comfortable with having no clue myself.
What, after all, can be "sure" that it's got things all
figured out? Only a self.
And the more that self believes that it *has* got things
all figured out, and the more it argues with other selves
for the supremacy of its ideas and concepts, IMO the more
likely that self is to *remain* a self.
Cool, I guess, if that's what you want out of life.
> --- billy jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > According to Patanjali, Y.S. I.27, Ishvaara is the
> > referent of the pranava (OM). Thus the pranava (OM)
> > is not just a name for Ishvara (which could be a
> > mere convention) but is the shabda (the actual sound
> > vibration of Ishvara expressed through human
> > speech).
> > OM is the doorway to Ishvara. Read Shankara's
> > commentary (vivarana) on this sutra and the other
> > Ishvara topics in the yogasutras and you will also
> > understand why Ishvara is much greater than any
> > Buddha.
> >
> > Read it and weep, Vaj.
> >
> > Qntmpkt - what does the blood drinking mountain
> > deity "yhvh", protector of the jews, have to do with
> > Ishvara?
> >
> > empty
> >
> > qntmpkt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ---I don't think there's an "Ishwara". If
> > so, who is it/she/him?
> > YAHWEH? Krishna? Lalita?
> >
> > In [email protected], "BillyG."
> > <wgm4u@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "Robert
> > Gimbel" <babajii_99@>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Buddha plane would also be the Christ
> > plane...
> > > > It is like the Holy Spirit.
> > > > Jesus is like the son, is like Purusha, standing
> > between the two
> > worlds.
> > >
> > > Congratulations..you've got it! Remember MMY
> > saying God is both
> > > Manifest and Unmanifest? The manifest pursuha is
> > the personal god
> > > consciousness MMY talks about!! The unmanifest
> > Purusha is Brahman.
> > >
> > > > What is missing in much of Christian Literature,
> > as well as Jewish
> > > > Literature, as well as Islamic literature...?
> > > > The power of woman is left out.
> > >
> > > Not at all, Mother Nature, Maha Prakriti is the
> > entire created
> > cosmos.
> > >
> > > > Pity...
> > > > The Native Americans and other races had a deep
> > connection to the
> > earth.
> > > > Without being grounded in the earth, not much
> > can be accomplished
> > here.
> > > > So, this seems like an archetype that transcends
> > any particular
> > story;
> > > > But rather the basic nature of things.
> > > > So, it's ok to say that the earth is all just
> > Maya...
> > >
> > > Not just Maya..but Ishvara's consort, his
> > sport/lila as infinite
> > > creativity.
> > >
> > > > However, it would be nice to have all that Maya,
> > be nice, and
> > loving
> > > > and harmonious...
> > > > Unlike Babylon or other such places.
> > > > We should have never gone to Babylon...
> > > > It was as true today, as it was long ago...
> > >
> > > As long as we co-operate with the laws of Nature
> > (Veda) we are
> > > promised happiness, in this world and the next,
> > unto eternity.....
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's
> > economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>
>
>
>
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